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 Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?

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JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 9:33 am

Dear all of the 1879 Zulu War Forum,

My name is Josh Hutchings and this is my first post on here.

I am currently writing a biography of the Hutchings & Son tailoring establishment my ancestors owned in Wincanton, Somerset for over a century throughout the Victorian Era.

One of said tailors named Arundel Arthur Hutchings left for South Africa in the 1870s.

Arundel's brother-in-law was a man named Charles Black, born around 1858 in Cushendall, County Antrim, Ireland though lived out in South Africa.

Charles Black died aged 24 on 8th Jan 1882 at Umgeni Road (or Woodville, Umgeni) of malarial fever.

On his death notice (available on FamilySearch), his sister Lizzie Black listed his occupation as "Late Baker's Horse"

On his death register (also on FamilySearch) he was listed as working as an "Engineer"

I am trying to ascertain whether he was a Baker's Horse or not, is anyone able to assist?
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8219
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 10:35 am

Hi Josh
Bakers horse served in the 1879 war but he isnt on the medal roll so its possible he joined when the regiment was re formed in 1880 for the Basuto Rebellion in Griqualand. The regiment disbanded again in 1882, it was raised and disbanded in Natal. Cam Simpson has been researching that era and the regiments involved but last I heard he was in Morocco, Im not sure if he managed to get back to SA before the lockdown.
I will try and make contact.
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John Young

John Young


Posts : 2422
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 66
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 11:10 am

Josh,

There is no trace of anyone named Black serving in Baker’s Horse during the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879.  

There are two C. Blacks on the 1877-8-9 Medal Roll: Private 613 C. Black of the 90th Light Infantry and Domestic 3rd Class C. L. Black of H.M.S. Euphrates.

Now just to confuse matters - Baker’s Horse were raised again in 1880-1.  However, I have checked the Cape of Good Hope General Service Medal Roll, and neither of the men with the surname Black served in Baker’s Horse - Sergeant D. Black, Umtata Volunteers & Private W. Black, Cape Mounted Riflemen.

Sorry best I can do.

JY

(Frank, we were obviously typing at the same time.)
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8219
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 11:14 am

Hi John
yep Ive got the same results. Cam by the way is stuck in lock down in Casablanca. Not a happy lad.
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John Young

John Young


Posts : 2422
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 66
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 11:27 am

Frank,

I bet he’s in Rick Blaine’s place, awaiting his letters of transit.

“As time goes by...”


JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8219
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 12:53 pm

Fond memories
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JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 2:19 pm

I am really at a loss then, folks!

I suppose these are the arguments for him being involved with Baker's Horse:
- He was in Natal Colony at the time,
- He was the right sort of age (early 20s),
- He was British (Roman Catholic Irish),
- His own sister wrote on his death record that his job was a late Baker's Horse
- He was in need of money (I heard that poor young men were inclined towards military positions as it was paid work? I know he was poor because he died with very little in his will)

Arguments against his involvement with Baker's Horse:
- He does not show up on any of the service medal records for any of the times Baker's Horse were raised...

Why might his sister, who was also living in South Africa, think that her little brother was a late Baker's Horse?

Is there any possibility that he could've been with this irregular regiment and not been awarded a medal for it? (I really am completely ignore of military service, so apologies!)

I am really befuddled! I wonder if this enigmatic man stranded in Casablanca might be of any further assistance?
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John Young

John Young


Posts : 2422
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 66
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 3:36 pm

Josh,

Can you post a link or post a photograph of his sister’s text?  I just wonder if there might have been some misinterpretation of a word perhaps?

That said there was certainly a delay in issuing the Cape of Good Hope General Service Medal.  Which might be an indicator of the latter campaign.  Just a thought.

I take it you have searched the National Archives of South Africa for any clues?

JY
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JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 3:46 pm

Unfortunately I live in England and have never visited South Africa! I'm looking forward to spending some time there looking through archives, once this pandemic has passed I'll be out there.

Here are three images of documents related to his death:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 3:49 pm

The first image is a letter written to the Court by Charles Black's sister after he died, outlining that she forgot to attach a document to his file (not of much use to us)

The second image is his death notice, which states Charles Black's job as an "engineer"

The third image is Charles Black's death register, filled out by his sister, with his occupation listed as "Late Baker's Horse"
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JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 3:54 pm

Something that may be of interest, is according to the third image, Charles Black left £4 16s in "prize" money"(?) in the hands of "Capt Davey" - Is this a further lead? Who is Capt Davey?
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John Young

John Young


Posts : 2422
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 66
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 4:34 pm

Josh,

More than likely that is Captain & Adjutant N. E. Davey, Natal Volunteer Forces.

Prize money was given for taking the enemy’s cattle.

Given that the earlier Baker’s Horse was raised in Cape Colony in 1878 for service in Zulu Campaign, I feel that he might well have served in the 1880-1 unit which as Frank mentions above was raised in Natal.

The National Archives of South Africa have an online search facility, I recommend that you search the Pietermaritzburg archive.

JY
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JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 4:53 pm

You guys are brilliant.

Thank you so much for the assistance here, I believe I may have taken a few steps in the right direction today with your guidance.

I do hope that fellow stuck in Moroccan will see this post at some point!
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John Young

John Young


Posts : 2422
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 66
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    horse - Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 6:22 pm

Josh,

There’s a good reference dated 1882 in the Pietermaritzburg Archive, that might be of some use, albeit that there is a spelling error in the catalogue in relation to Willoughby’s Horse:

DEPOT NAB
SR/SN 000/00
SOURCE CSO
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 858
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 1882/2024
PART 1
DESCRIPTION COLONIAL SECRETARY, CAPE OF GOOD HOPE. TELEGRAMS ABOUT EXTRA PAY FOR
CAPTAIN DAVEY, NATAL MOUNTED POLICE FOR LABOUR ENTAILED ON HIM IN
PAYING PRIZE MONEY TO BAKER'S AND WILLONGHBY'S HORSE ON BEHALF OF
CAPE GOVERNMENT.
STARTING 1882
ENDING 1882
REMARKS T1882/423, V1882/639, VC1882/4, CSO1882/1789, CSO1882/1878.

I feel it is beyond doubt that Charles served in 1880-1 unit.

JY
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