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 Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron

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Julian Whybra




Posts : 2662
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

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PostSubject: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySat Jan 15, 2022 12:14 pm

There was an artilleryman posted to the 2nd squadron IMI. He was certainly present with them in Nov 1878 and appears to have remained so till the conclusion of the war.
He must have been a farrier-sergt. or shoeing-smith - the services of a gunner would hardly have been required.
He was not N/5 - its farrier-sergt. and a shoeing-smith were kia Isandhlwana and the two other shoeing-smiths escaped from there.
He can only have come from 11/7.
However I have no info at all on such men in this unit. does anyone else who might be able to shed light on who this artilleryman was?
Thanks in advance.
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Bill8183




Posts : 99
Join date : 2015-11-08
Age : 53
Location : Sunderland

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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySat Jan 15, 2022 7:45 pm

Julian,

I happened to be at TNA today although I didn't actually read this till late. I managed to have a look at WO 16/310 11/7 Bde R.A. 78/79.

I am not 100% sure if I have copied any relevant info, I will check and send it in a reply to your email you sent earlier.

Bill
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Herbie




Posts : 88
Join date : 2017-11-16
Age : 56
Location : Epsom, Surrey

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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySat Jan 15, 2022 10:40 pm

Hi Julian
Forgotten Heroes has 2 Farriers Sgt’s listed against 11/7 Bty - 4677 W Brewer & 4666 H Heathcote (the later also listed with N/6 Bty) and Shoeing Smith 3684 C Felstead but all 3 only entitled to 1879 bar.

I noticed there are few other Farriers Sgt’s listed though and I wonder if one of these is your man:
2099 Mc A James with 1877-8-9 bar (and 4389 S Smith with 1879 bar only) both from O/2 Bty or
2242 G Osborne with 1877-8 bar from Depot Bty 5 Bde

8/7 Bty also has some men listed with 1877-8 bars but no Farriers Sgt’s or Shoeing Smiths.

Regards
Phil

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Julian Whybra




Posts : 2662
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySat Jan 15, 2022 11:01 pm

Herbie
Brilliant, thanks.  That gives me some names to check out.  My man will certainly have an 1879 bar at the very least.
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Julian Whybra




Posts : 2662
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySun Jan 16, 2022 9:32 am

My man should be listed in WO16 1579 2/24th Pay Lists Oct 1878-Mar 1879 certainly for Nov 1878 at the same time as 1305 Sgt J.E. Anderson 6th Dragoon Guards and 1533 Farrier Sgt Edward Leader 2nd Dragoon Guards.
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Bill8183




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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySun Jan 16, 2022 10:21 am

Sorry Julian,

There are no references to Royal Artillery whatsoever in WO 16/1579. There are lists of attached Infantry at the end, generally then posted to the General Depot at Pietermaritzburg, with some Army Hospital Corps and Army Service Corps.

In the main pay-list itself the only attached personnel are Infantry from other Regiments.

Bill
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySun Jan 16, 2022 12:12 pm

Strange. He was definitely attached to the MI by 26th November 1878 at the same time as Pte. Grogan AHC.
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John Young

John Young


Posts : 2368
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Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySun Jan 16, 2022 1:57 pm

Just a point of interest 11th Battery, 7th Brigade, Royal Artillery were a Garrison Battery.  Garrison Batteries were designated with a Number/Number.  Field Batteries were a Letter/Number such as ‘N’ Battery, 5th Brigade.  Royal Horse Artillery Batteries were designated with a Letter/Letter such as ‘A’ Battery, ‘A’ Brigade, R.H.A.

This would account for the small number of Farriers, Shoeing-Smiths, Saddlers & Collar-Makers-in 11th/7th R.A.

JY
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gardner1879

gardner1879


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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySun Jan 16, 2022 3:01 pm

Julian
Did he definitely stay with the Imperial Mounted Infantry for the duration of the war?
Check out the Sheffield and Rotherham Independant for the 5th June 1879.
Its an account by a Sergeant J.A. Webster of 11/7th Battery.
I came across his account when doing some research on the rocket batteries.
A sergeant in the battery who could ride well and was picked for the IMI would also be the ideal man for a mounted raid on Hlobane, if he returned to his battery.
Kate  Very Happy
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySun Jan 16, 2022 3:19 pm

OK, thanks
Julian
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySun Jan 16, 2022 6:21 pm

Kate,

I would conclude from his letter that Sergeant J. A. Webster was part of Buller’s party during the assault on Hlobane.  Major E. J. Tremlett was in command of that section of the rocket party, including Tremlett there were seven all-ranks in that detachment.  

Lieutenant Arthur Bigge commanded the other section of the rocket party, which consisted of ten all-ranks.  It was that section which accompanied No. 1 Squadron, Mounted Infantry.

No. 1 Column, and subsequently the Eshowe Relief Force relied on the Rocket Tubes of the Royal Navy, No. 2 Squadron, Mounted Infantry were assigned to those formations.

JY
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gardner1879

gardner1879


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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySun Jan 16, 2022 7:12 pm

John,
That was why I was asking Julian if he definitely remained with the IMI.
If he did not, he could have returned to his battery and as a good rider could have been chosen for the small RB detachment with Tremlett that went up Hlobane.

And remember Bigge did not go up onto Hlobane with Buller but climbed up onto Ntendeka with Russell.
As regards the coastal column it did not rely entirely on the Rocket Tubes of the Royal Navy, 11th Battery had a 9 pounder rocket trough.
Kate
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySun Jan 16, 2022 9:39 pm

Kate,

I stand corrected, yes Lieutenant Wilford Lloyd’s section 11/7 consisted of two ‘M.L.R.’ (His sequence, not mine.) 7-pounders, did indeed have a rocket trough and twenty-five rockets. Although he records the number of shells his section fired at Nyezane, he makes no reference to his section’s rockets, only those of the Naval Brigade.

Given that Lloyd’s section of 11/7 were part of No. 1 Column, would it not plausible that Julian’s mystery man attached to No. 2 Squadron, Mounted Infantry, might have been part of that section, rather than in the two sections in No. 4 Column? Which why I was trying, albeit poorly, establish that Sergeant 1736 J. Webster was part of No. 4 Column as described in his letter home.

JY

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Julian Whybra




Posts : 2662
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptySun Jan 16, 2022 10:32 pm

Webster does not seem to have had the relevant specialist skills necessary for him to be detached for MI duty.  Riding well was not enough.  A drill sergeant of farrier / shoeing skills were the sort of positions required.
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gardner1879

gardner1879


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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptyMon Jan 17, 2022 3:15 pm

No worries
Sorry it was of no use.
Its an interesting little account though especially the bit about the pack horses.
Kate Very Happy
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Julian Whybra




Posts : 2662
Join date : 2011-09-12
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptyTue Jan 18, 2022 9:46 am

There is another possibility: that the artilleryman was a trumpeter.
Drummer Manley was transferred to the MI in Nov 1878 but then later reduced to Private.
The squadron would have to have had a trumpeter and there is no other known candidate.
The N/5 trumpeters are accounted for which takes me back to 11/7 & odds and sods.
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptyTue Jan 18, 2022 3:46 pm

Julian,

Two Trumpeters listed in 11th/7th’s Medal Roll:
1915 G. H. Durham
1947 E. Lees.

But as you mentioned “odds & sods” also listed on their Medal Roll is a Military Staff Clerk J. FitzPatrick.

JY
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Julian Whybra




Posts : 2662
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron   Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron EmptyTue Jan 18, 2022 3:56 pm

Thank you john. I'll let you know if anything emerges.
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