Latest topics | » In search of the 80th FootToday at 6:39 pm by Julian Whybra » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. Today at 4:43 pm by Dash » THE DISTINGUISHED CONDUCT MEDALThu Sep 05, 2024 11:16 pm by Julian Whybra » 61451 John Evans. Able Seaman.Wed Sep 04, 2024 5:15 pm by Matthew Turl » 9312 Sapper H Cuthbert 5th Field Coy REWed Sep 04, 2024 11:53 am by Julian Whybra » Who’s who in this photo?Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:44 pm by ianwood » Sir Robert William Jackson Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:24 am by Julian Whybra » Memorial to WolseleySun Sep 01, 2024 8:47 pm by John Young » Lieutenant & Adjutant Spencer Frederick Chichester, 2nd 21stSun Sep 01, 2024 7:52 pm by Rory Reynolds » Last of the 24th at IsandhlwanaSun Sep 01, 2024 7:51 am by Julian Whybra » On this day 28th August, 1879Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:28 am by Julian Whybra » Alfred Ducat - N.N.C. Help with plotting his careerThu Aug 29, 2024 6:58 pm by Rory Reynolds » Army Pay Department PersonnelSun Aug 25, 2024 11:51 pm by Julian Whybra » Baron Von SteitencronSun Aug 25, 2024 10:32 am by Julian Whybra » Troop Despatch Sat Aug 24, 2024 10:15 pm by Eddie » Private 35/1430 James Priddle 1/13th RegimentSat Aug 24, 2024 8:09 am by Roobie257 » Zulu powder hornFri Aug 23, 2024 5:22 pm by Rob D » Telescope v. field glassesFri Aug 23, 2024 7:07 am by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)Wed Aug 21, 2024 5:14 am by 90th » 90th foot sgt T. Collins 214Tue Aug 20, 2024 3:04 pm by johnman » Zulu "Corps"Tue Aug 20, 2024 11:43 am by Hobbes » amaKwenke amabuthoTue Aug 20, 2024 11:23 am by Hobbes » A story regarding Younghusband's charge. Hearsay or a possibility? Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:48 pm by Danny1960 » Hill of the Sphinx for sale open to offersSat Aug 17, 2024 6:44 pm by ciroferrara » Information help please Fri Aug 16, 2024 4:44 pm by Roobie257 » Capt. Geo. ShepstoneTue Aug 13, 2024 4:14 pm by Julian Whybra » Thomas William george 58th regiment 1880’s SATue Aug 13, 2024 12:05 pm by Alstar » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at largeSun Aug 11, 2024 7:50 pm by Julian Whybra » Sergt. Woods N.N.C.Fri Aug 09, 2024 4:41 pm by Julian Whybra » Who led the Naval Brigade at Gingindlovu ?Thu Aug 08, 2024 9:32 pm by Herbert West » Herbert's Zulu war modelsThu Aug 08, 2024 7:06 pm by Herbert West » Studies in the Zulu War volumesWed Aug 07, 2024 2:31 pm by Julian Whybra » 80th Foot Information RequestTue Aug 06, 2024 6:28 pm by Bill8183 » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift Mon Aug 05, 2024 7:53 pm by SRB1965 » Hamilton Browne's birthdayMon Aug 05, 2024 2:41 pm by Julian Whybra |
September 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| | | | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | | | | | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
John Young
Posts : 3295 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:45 pm | |
| I recently purchased a copy of W. B. Bartlett’s Hlobane and Khambula The Forgotten Epic of How the Anglo-Zulu War Was Lost and Won.
As many of the Forum will know I collect illustrations and photographs relating to the Zulu War of 1879. So what could I expect to find on the two major actions of Wood’s No. 4 Column with regard to illustrations. Well to put it bluntly, almost nothing at all.
There is an engraving taken from The Illustrated London News listed as illustration 1, the text accompanying the illustration correctly identifies the subject as Lieutenant George Williams of the Frontier Light Horse, who perished at Hlobane. What is curious is that in the text of the work on page 126, the author states that Lieutenant George Williams was an officer in the Natal Native Contingent. A statement that really jarred with me as the Natal Native Contingent did not serve in No. 4 Column, the African levies in No. 4 Column were named Wood’s Irregulars.
There is a statement that regarding Lieutenant C. C. Williams, of the 58th (Rutlandshire) Regiment, that follows the remark regarding George Williams it is equally confusing, frankly I think the author has confused the two officers.
Contained within the glossy pages of illustrations, and in my opinion, totally out of context with the subject of the work there are four engravings and a modern photograph relating to the death of the Prince Imperial. If those illustrations are out of place, I could not fathom why a modern photograph of what is described as The grave of Lieutenant Colonel Northey at Gingindlovu. had been included. I have stood beside the grave of Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel Francis Vernon Northey, and Epsom is a long way from Gingindlovu. What I could not comprehend was why it included when the photograph is the only obvious mention of Northey?
There is the well-known of engraving of No. 2 Squadron, Mounted Infantry, in action at Gingindlovu listed as No. 14 in the list of illustrations, but the descriptive text states it to be British cavalry in combat with Zulu infantry at Khambula. The two illustrations that precede that erroneously described engraving depict the Battle of Ulundi, are totally out of sequence. The engravings and photographs are a jumble. Moorosi’s Mountain appears with the odd caption, The rugged landscape of Basutoland from which many tough auxiliaries supporting the British came. Personally, I doubt that many of Moorosi’s Baphuthi were allied to the British cause in 1879.
Illustration-wise I found nothing new in this publication, suffice to say the sequence of illustrations is confusing at the very least.
These are just my thoughts on the matter.
JY |
| | | gardner1879
Posts : 3460 Join date : 2021-01-04
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:24 am | |
| Morning John Regarding your reference to George Williams in the book, does the author mention Alan Gardner at all? (George being killed whilst chatting to Alan on the way up Hlobane) |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3295 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:56 am | |
| Kate,
Yes he does.
Can I put this tactfully, I don’t think this work will add to your knowledge of Gardner’s involvement with No. 4 Column.
As soon as the place is back in order, why not come down and borrow the book. That way you can form your own opinion.
JY |
| | | gardner1879
Posts : 3460 Join date : 2021-01-04
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:59 am | |
| That would be smashing, thanks John, I look forward to it. |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4088 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:11 am | |
| John I too looked at this book and noted the errors - there are many more you do not include in your review above. I can't recommend it. |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3295 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:43 pm | |
| Julian,
At the present time I have only concentrated on the illustrated content, so much of which is totally irrelevant to subject of the book.
When my research facilities are finally restored I will consider reviewing the actual text, however, with the current demands on my time that will be in the distant future.
JY
Last edited by John Young on Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4088 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:18 pm | |
| Kate I wouldn't look forward to it TOO much! |
| | | gardner1879
Posts : 3460 Join date : 2021-01-04
| | | | John Young
Posts : 3295 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:25 pm | |
| Julian,
I think Kate is actually referring to my Orange Pekoe loose leaf tea and biscuits. Unless she’s bringing the cakes…
As you can see from Kate’s reply I am proved right.
JY |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4088 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:37 pm | |
| |
| | | lfmcgee4
Posts : 28 Join date : 2022-01-11 Location : Pittsburgh, PA USA
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:39 pm | |
| I was hoping for a more balanced view of JC Russell. Referring to him as a “panicked British Officer” on page 153 seems a bit harsh and doesn’t address any possibility of Wood trying to shift Blame for the loss at Hlobane. Just my opinion, Lee |
| | | gardner1879
Posts : 3460 Join date : 2021-01-04
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Sat Jul 23, 2022 7:09 pm | |
| That does seem a bit unfair Lee. I have a bit of a soft spot for Russell, and think he was unfairly treated after the 22nd but that is perhaps the subject of another thread.
|
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4088 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:19 pm | |
| I agree. Russell has always seemed to me to have had a raw deal out of his situation. |
| | | | W. B. Bartlett, Hlobane and Khambula… | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |