WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu. Lieutenant John Chard: The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day. Bromhead: Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» The Wrecked Camp
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyToday at 1:23 pm by SRB1965

» Private N/N John Robert Branch 90th Regiment and his discovered diary
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyMon Jul 15, 2024 8:53 pm by 1879graves

» Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jul 14, 2024 12:06 pm by 1879graves

» 90th foot sgt T. Collins 214
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jul 14, 2024 10:57 am by johnman

» Baron Von Steitencron
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jul 10, 2024 3:10 pm by Julian Whybra

» Sgt Joseph Windridge, Defender of Rorke's Drift - Memorial
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue Jul 09, 2024 3:15 am by 90th

» Writing advice
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jul 07, 2024 4:04 pm by Julian Whybra

» South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jul 07, 2024 9:30 am by rai

» The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN

» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN

» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 11:18 am by Wayne

» Bassage Diary
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra

» Prior to Sihayo's Kraal
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 9:19 am by 90th

» British Fort Locations
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 3:40 am by 90th

» Sergeant 1064 Tom Hick / Hicks G Company 2/24th Regiment
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jul 03, 2024 11:05 am by Julian Whybra

» A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Jun 28, 2024 2:31 pm by Mr M. Cooper

» Private 25B/279 Henry Sears Bugler E Company 24th Reg. KIA Isandlwana
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jun 27, 2024 1:07 pm by gardner1879

» Hamilton Browne's birthday
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Jun 21, 2024 9:22 am by Julian Whybra

» Zulu "Corps"
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jun 20, 2024 6:01 pm by Hobbes

» Army Pay Department Personnel
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jun 20, 2024 11:49 am by Julian Whybra

» Ntshingwayo birth date
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jun 16, 2024 11:37 am by Hobbes

» Zibhebhu and Cetshwayo's family
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jun 05, 2024 9:11 pm by Julian Whybra

» Smith's Store/Hotel
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jun 05, 2024 6:06 pm by Julian Whybra

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue Jun 04, 2024 5:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» Shaka iLembe
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Jun 01, 2024 1:27 pm by Jon84

» Bugler 1415 Thomas Finn / Flin 90th Regiment
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat May 25, 2024 11:28 am by johnman

» Inspector-General Evelyn Richard Hugh Pollard
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue May 14, 2024 10:13 am by ADMIN

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat May 11, 2024 8:01 am by Julian Whybra

» Fairlie's Native Police
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm by Hobbes

» 24th Regiment side drum a plea for help
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu May 02, 2024 6:11 pm by General Gordon

» Francis Shirley Russell 14th Hussars
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyMon Apr 29, 2024 12:20 pm by IntCorpsMedals

» Looking for the medal to 1423 Pte. W. Gregg/Greig
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Apr 27, 2024 1:46 am by sam steele

» 1409 Pte David Lloyd, Defender of Rorke's Drift
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Apr 26, 2024 8:48 pm by Julian Whybra

» The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snake
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Apr 25, 2024 9:36 am by Hobbes

» Anson A. Mayer/Maher
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue Apr 23, 2024 7:10 pm by cmeghen

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
July 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
1234567
891011121314
15161718192021
22232425262728
293031    
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
The missing five hours.
The ammunition question
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_leftcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Barcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_right 
Branchjr
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_leftcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Barcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_right 
1879graves
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_leftcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Barcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_right 
90th
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_leftcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Barcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_right 
paulhellier
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_leftcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Barcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_right 
SRB1965
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_leftcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Barcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_right 
John Young
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_leftcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Barcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_right 
Hobbes
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_leftcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Barcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_right 
johnman
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_leftcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Barcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_right 
jgregory
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_leftcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Barcarbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Bar_right 
New topics
» The Wrecked Camp
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH

» The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN

» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN

» South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 1:50 pm by paulhellier

» British Fort Locations
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jun 30, 2024 7:49 pm by 61MECH

» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Jun 29, 2024 9:08 pm by Wayne

» Sergeant 1064 Tom Hick / Hicks G Company 2/24th Regiment
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jun 27, 2024 1:35 pm by gardner1879

» Private 25B/279 Henry Sears Bugler E Company 24th Reg. KIA Isandlwana
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Jun 27, 2024 1:07 pm by gardner1879

» Army Pay Department Personnel
carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jun 19, 2024 10:56 am by ANWYLL

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty

Go down 
+3
aussie inkosi
Eddie
Tim Needham
7 posters
AuthorMessage
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 305
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Dec 28, 2022 10:16 pm

Hello all,

I've come across a number of discrepancies regarding Trooper Borain (Natal Carbineers, killed at Isandlwana) and wondered if anyone knows what his first name was, Charles or Harry?

A handful of memorials in South Africa (including the NC one on the battlefield) list his initial as 'C', and a number of genealogy sites name him as Charles, son of Valentine Borain & Elizabeth - as does the publication 'The Borain Family' by Adrian Ferramosca.

However, I've also found references to his name being 'Harry' in Terry Sole's 'For God, Queen & Colony', and also in a death notice in The Natal Witness dated 13 Feb 1879, however here he is stated to be the son of Mr G Borain of Cape Town (which contradicts the family information given in the previous sources).

Tavender's Casualty Roll, John Young's 'They Fell Like Stones' & Dutton's Medal Roll name the casualty variously as 'G Borrain' or 'G Borraine' - possibly mis-transcriptions from the original rolls?

As ever, if anyone is able to clear up these details I'd be interested to hear!

Regards,

Tim
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Dec 29, 2022 2:09 am

Hi Tim

Wikitree

I could only find the same as you, and it names him as Charles:

Born: Charles Borain SEP 1862 Pietermaritzburg,Natal, SA.
Died 22nd January 1879, age:16, Isandlwana,
Parents: Valentine Borain and Elizabeth Goldsmid(Phillips) Hyam
Siblings:
George
James
Joseph Edward
William Richard
John Valentine
Henry
Mary
Elizabeth Rebecca

Regards
Eddie


Last edited by Eddie on Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
aussie inkosi

aussie inkosi


Posts : 428
Join date : 2013-09-16
Age : 58
Location : MELBOURNE

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Dec 29, 2022 9:59 am

I found several errors in Terry Sole's book not to say he got this one wrong, only 16 that would make him one of the youngest.
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3254
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Dec 29, 2022 11:41 am

Tim,

They Fell Like Stones needs an overhaul. In the past thirty years research and research facilities have improved somewhat. I’ll put it on my never diminishing to do list.

JY
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyThu Dec 29, 2022 12:03 pm

17 Trpr. Charles Borain and, yes, one of several youngsters aged 16.
Back to top Go down
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 305
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 12:21 am

Thanks for your replies.

Athough the evidence seems to suggest that he was indeed 'Charles', I'm intrigued by the Death Notice in The Natal Witness which was presumably included by a relative & names him as Harry; perhaps he was known by this name amongst his family?

The other conundrum in this notice is his father being named as Mr G Borain of Cape Town, when all other sources name his father as Valentine Borain of Durban.

Terry Sole's book does indicate a possible connection to Cape Town, stating that relatives could not be traced after the battle, but that Borain was believed to have come from Cape Colony.

A few years ago I managed to trace Valentine Borain's burial to the West Street Cemetery in Durban (he died June 1878), and I was hoping to track down the grave itself in order to see whether the headstone - if there is one - mentions Charles'/Harry's death at Isandlwana. Unfortunately I've not been able to get any further with this, as I don't have any contacts in Durban who may be able to help - however, it would be interesting to see if there is a gravestone which might just clear this up!

Regards,

Tim


Last edited by Tim Needham on Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 1:57 am

Hi Tim/All

I may have found the answer, Charles had a grandfather and uncle named George.

Grandfather: George Adam Borain, born 1794, died 1868, Pine Terrace, Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, SA. He married Rebecca Bennet 1798 - 1868.

Uncle: George Bennett Borain, (son of the above) born 26th Feb 1819, Canterbury, Kent, England, died 27th Feb 1882, Cape Town, Western Cape, SA. (This G Borain listed as father by Tim is actually the father of Henry mentioned below, and not the father of Charles).

Aunt's & Uncles:
Mary Borain 1830-1873
George Bennett Borain 1819-1882
John Bennett Borain 1838-1870
Barbara Borain 1832-1856
Austin Borain 1835-1902

Here is an oddity
Ancestry.com, also lists uncle George's son, Henry Borain, born 25 Sept 1852 as dying in 1879 also, but doesn't say where. An "e" also added to Henry's surname, "Boraine"
I wonder if this is just a coincidence or could both have served and died in different battles.

Tim I wonder if this is where the confusion has come from and Harry has been mistaken for Henry.

Hope this don't confuse things to much Eddie.


Last edited by Eddie on Fri Dec 30, 2022 2:55 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Add more information)
Back to top Go down
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 305
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 9:44 pm

Eddie,

Many thanks, this certainly does throw up further questions! The death notice from The Natal Witness may well have been mis-transcribed and originally mentioned 'Mr G Borain of Cape Town' as an uncle, but without seeing the printed copy it's hard to say.

With regard to Henry who also died in 1879, I think a little more research needs to be done.....

Regards,

Tim

Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3254
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 10:07 pm

Tim & Eddie,

A search of the old database for the PMB Archives reveals the following request dating from 1882 (Not me shouting by-the-way, but how the text appears.):

SOURCE    CSO    
REFERENCE 1882/366  

GEORGE BORAIN. ASKS FOR BALANCE OF AWARD FOR LOSS OF KIT AND HORSE OF HIS SON LATE TROOPER OF NATAL CARBINEERS.

Just throw another cat amongst the pigeons, The Natal Carbineers 1855-1911 by The Reverend John Stalker M.A. lists him as Trp. W. Borain.

JY
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 11:03 pm

John
This then would seem to indicate that it was Henry ('Harry') kia at Isandhlwana!!
Since he was born 25.9.1852 Henry would have been 16 years old when he was killed.
A grain of truth in the story.
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 11:44 pm

Hi Julian

Henry born 1852 would have been 27, not 16.
Charles born 1862 would have been 16

I have checked Charles details on Ancestry and he is definitely listed as died at Isandlwana.There is nothing against Henry's
name for place of death, seems very odd.
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 12:01 am

John/All

Charles had a brother, William Richard Borain born 1857, if he did serve along side Charles and cousin Henry then, he survived as he died Oct 1926.

For information: Henry's mother was Marion Browne, Swelletam, Western Cape, S.A
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 12:31 am

Tim/Julian/John

Littlehands post Feb 3rd 2011, 11:02pm " South Africa 1877 - 1879 Total Casualty Roll lists two Boraine that died at Isandlwana:

Corporal Borain (only one "r" ) Port Elizabeth volunteer horse
Trooper Borrain G Natal Cabineers.

G for The Trooper seems odd, but that's the way it is listed.It is likely the Corporal could be Henry and the Trooper to be Charles, and the "G" as mentioned, a mistake for "C".

Eddie


Last edited by Eddie on Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 9:22 am

Eddie
Sorry about the maths. Posting late at night is never very good. Heigh ho.
There were not 2 Borains at Isandhlwana. There was only one. 22 dead at the battle - all accounted for - 21 buried, one never found/identified.
22 names on the PMB war memorial and they include Trpr. C. Borain.
The mystery continues. Henry or Charles?
Back to top Go down
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 305
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 10:14 am

Eddie, all,

Yes, both Dutton's Medal Roll & Tavender's Casualty Roll list a Corporal Borain as having died at Isandlwana under the Port Elizabeth Volunteer Horse - the former publication does offer an initial of 'H', and that he was entitled to the medal with 1877--8-9 clasp (which was 'returned').

Perhaps Borain previously served with the PEVH before joining the Carbineers, creating a duplication on the medal rolls (although Trooper Borain listed under the NC appeared to only be entitled to the 1879 clasp).

I'll try to look into obtaining a copy of the correspondence in the PMB Archives found by John, as this may give some further clues - either way there certainly do appear to be some glaring discrepancies regarding whether Borain was a 'C', an 'H' or a 'G', and which family he came from!

Thanks for your collective interest so far!

Regards,

Tim
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 11:57 am

Hi All

I should imagine that the true identity of the soldier at Isandlwana is Charles as stated by Ancestry.com.
I would think that a family member would have entered the details correctly and as indicated there is no indication that Henry died at Isandlwana, there is nothing against his name, only the date of death.
It seems strange that there were only one Borain at Isandlwana, when the uncle of Charles collected Henry's possessions. It either suggests that there has been an omission in the roll or Henry died elsewhere. Going by evidence so far we know he died 1879, and that his father claimed for his horse and belongings, but medals returned for an "H" Borain is also odd.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 12:06 pm

Eddie
It wasn't Henry's possessions (horse & kit) that were collected. Looking at John's post above the name of the deceased is not mentioned, just the collector's name is as below:
SOURCE CSO
REFERENCE 1882/366

GEORGE BORAIN. ASKS FOR BALANCE OF AWARD FOR LOSS OF KIT AND HORSE OF HIS SON LATE TROOPER OF NATAL CARBINEERS.
For the record I agree with you that Charles is the more likely candidate for the kia.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 12:17 pm

It was in fact Charles Borain who was killed at Isandhlwana at the age of 16 (he was born in September 1862) and not his brother Henry (Spencer, Shelagh O., British Settlers in Natal 1824-1857 – A Biographical Register, [Pietermaritzburg, 1986], vol. 3) which information has been confirmed to me by his descendants.
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 12:52 pm

Hi Julian

Yes Charles had a brother called Henry, in addition to his cousin Henry, son of George.

Quote:  " GEORGE BORAIN. ASKS FOR BALANCE OF AWARD FOR LOSS OF KIT AND HORSE OF HIS SON LATE TROOPER OF NATAL CABINEERS."

Looking at that entry, is he collecting the belongings of his son (Henry) as stated, or is he collecting the belongings of Charles his nephew.. as we know Charles's father Valentine died in 1878.
It could be, he is collecting for Charles in the absence of Valentine, his father.

This suggests to me that there has been a mix up over George very early in publications, and that quite possibly Henry, his son, mistaken for Charles. Henry most probably dying of other courses, and the date of death a coincidence.
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Dec 31, 2022 1:28 pm

Hi All

Just for information:

George Bennett Borain and Valentine Borain were brothers, here are a list of their children and dates of birth and death:

GEORGE BENNETT BORAIN 1819-1882, Children:

Margaret Mary Ann 1849-1923
George Bennett Luck 1857-1903
William Charles 1864-1936
HENRY (1852-1879)*
Emily Ann 1863-1926
John James 1848-1926

VALENTINE BORAIN 1824-1878, Children:

James 1864-1922
Charles (1862-1879), KIA Isandlwana*
John Valentine 1849-1894
George 1853-1886
William Richard 1857-1926
HENRY (1859-1937)*
Mary 1851-1905
Joseph Edward 1867-1943

GRANDFATHER: GEORGE ADAM BORAIN 1794-1868, as listed above.

Just for reference.

Eddie


Last edited by Eddie on Sat Dec 31, 2022 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add text)
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3254
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jan 01, 2023 1:52 pm

Where I found it as G. rather than C.

Further Affairs of South Africa - British Parliamentary Papers

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
(John Young Collection)

Note the list is not without other errors.

JY
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jan 01, 2023 2:12 pm

Hi All

The casualty list at "www.northeastmedals.co.ok" also list him as "G" Borain. This must be an error when transferring data to the list.
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jan 01, 2023 5:41 pm

Tim/ all

I have also been able to make contact with Adrian Ferramosca a descendant from his mother's side, as have you. From our Conversation I think we can confirm that Henry/Harry are one and the same person.
Adrian, in his post says he is inclined to believe that both took part in the battle, but he is investigating further and has indicated he may join this site.

Eddie
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jan 01, 2023 8:11 pm

Hi all

As we suspected it was only Charles Borain that died at Isandlwana.
Adrian Ferramosca has said it was he who entered the date of 1879 against Henry's name on Ancestry after reading it in the Natal article mentioned.
So I think case closed, except, we know not when Henry actual died.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySun Jan 01, 2023 10:25 pm

I think it can be stated with certainty that Henry was not in the NC and did not fight in any military corps at Isandhlwana.
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10890
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 68
Location : Melbourne, Australia

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Trpr Borain NC KIA Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jan 18, 2023 8:10 am

Hi All
Been away so trying to catch up , read all the Borain posts quickly as I've done with all the others ! , I notice in Stalker... Borain has the initial W !!.
90th scratch
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3254
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jan 18, 2023 8:16 am

90th,

Doing your impression of L/Cpl. Jack Jones again…

See my previous of 31/12/2022, let me know when your land legs return!

JY Joker Joker Joker
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10890
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 68
Location : Melbourne, Australia

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Trooper Borain NC Isanslwana Casualty    carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jan 18, 2023 8:49 am

Hi JY
I knew I read the posts to quickly ! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy . Thanks for reign in HAHAHAHAHAHA
90th Salute
Back to top Go down
gardner1879

gardner1879


Posts : 3460
Join date : 2021-01-04

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jan 18, 2023 10:51 am

Once the computer screen stops rolling from side to side things will be a little easier. Joker Joker
Good to have you back 90th
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10890
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 68
Location : Melbourne, Australia

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Trooper Borain NC Isanslwana Casualty    carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed Jan 18, 2023 11:53 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thanks Kate Very Happy
90th
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptySat Jan 21, 2023 10:09 am

90th
Just get back myself and can start 'living' again. Welcome back 90th.
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10890
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 68
Location : Melbourne, Australia

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Trooper Borain NC Isanslwana Casualty    carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyFri Jan 27, 2023 1:26 pm

Cheers Julian.
90th Salute
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue May 09, 2023 12:25 am

Hi All

I had thought that we had put this to bed, however, I have been given some information from a family member on Facebook.
Andrew Boraine has posted a copy of the medal roll of the Port Elizabeth Volunteer Horse.
In it are 20 members listed, one being Cpl H Borain 1877 - 1879.
This corresponds with "Little hands" thinking, which I mentioned above,  where he states there were two Borain's at the battle, a Corporal and a Trooper.
This may be where Littlehand got his info from, although it does not mean he died then.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue May 09, 2023 7:34 am

Eddie
But there were no Port Elizabeth Volunteer Horse at Isandhlwana. This H. Borain was either Charles in a previous existence before the Carbineers (and listed twice) or a completely different man definitely not present at the battle.
I don't see that Andrew Boraine's info materially alters anything established in previous posts.
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue May 09, 2023 11:12 am

Hi

Also found:

The Natal Witness original death notice state:

13 Feb 1879 Borain Harry Death, 22 Jan 1879. In action at Isandlwana, son of Mr G Borain of Capetown [No Age or other details given]

Also in Anglo BoerWar.com under the heading "Engaged in the Frontier wars 1877 - 1879".
Category: War units
Port Elizabeth Volunteer Horse:

Borain H Corporal, Frontier wars sags (1) 1877-8-9 medal returned KIA.

Under the old thread " Non British Regiment's' Zulu war, "Chelmsfordthescapegoat" Sun 14 June 2009 12:26pm.
Also lists a Corporal Borain and states that there were Port Elizabeth Volunteer Horse present, and that Cpl Borain died at Isandlwana. This being a list of all Cavalry unit casualties, and does not include Carbineers, that of which, Trooper Borain was a member.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue May 09, 2023 12:01 pm

Eddie
Remember that the Witness gets most of its info from the Mercury which takes a lot from the Times of Natal. So Merc/ToN 27 Jany has H. Borain but on 10 Feb has G Borain. Like today, newspapers made lots of errors in their reports.
Other societies websites get their information from secondary sources (unless they state otherwise); they have no special insight or information. Ditto, unless provenanced by a primary source, other members' posts.
So what can be relied upon when there are discrepancies? Well, contemporary muster rolls and pay lists (most of the time), claims from the families, local memorials and commemorations, the deceased's mates, and specific family information.
Not Forsyth, Dutton or Tavender.
We have 22 Carbineers kia at Isandhlwana. All found and buried by their mates (bar one - who was not Borain). Trpr. Charles Borain was found and buried on 21st May.
The local monument in PMB gives Trpr. C. Borain.
We have a man (G Borain) claiming for the death of his son. If 'son' is referring to Charles at Isandhlwana, it is his is either Charles's uncle or the initial's wrong. It cannot be Charles's father Valentine; he died in 1878. Perhaps it really is G Borain claiming for the death of his son Corporal Henry Borain (perhaps from disease also in 1879 but not at Isandhlwana - an error or a misconception by his father).
Lastly, one of Charles's collateral descendants confirmed to me by e-mail that it was definitely Charles Borain who was killed at Isandhlwana at the age of 16 (he was born in September 1862) and not his brother Henry who died in 1937 (Spencer, Shelagh O., British Settlers in Natal 1824-1857 – A Biographical Register, [Pietermaritzburg, 1986], vol. 3).
The only remaining mystery is if Charles's cousin Henry, ostensibly of Port Eliz Vol Horse, did die in 1879, what did he die of, and where?
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue May 09, 2023 2:19 pm

Hi Julian

Are you referring to Roy Dutton "Forgotten Heroes Zulu & Basuto wars", as he also lists two, and both having died at Isandlwana.

He lists 290 Trooper Borain, 70 Boshof. I don't know what that means, address maybe?
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue May 09, 2023 2:59 pm

Eddie
I am referring to Roy Dutton's book. I can only find one entry in it for Borain under Dutton's Isandhlwana Casualties (p. 421 and even then it is misspelt Bornin). The burial party went looking for 22 Carbineers and they found them: two officers, one NCO and 19 ORs. The last with their regtl. nos. were:
Trprs. 16 Jas. Adrian Blaikie, 17 Charles Borain,2 22 C. G. S. Christian, 29 Harry Wm. Davis, 30 Jas. Deane, 69 Herbert Jno. Wm. Dickinson, 40 C. Haldane, 70 Villiers Caesar Hawkins, 39 C. Hayhow, 72 Fred. Jackson,3 71 Robt. Wm. Jackson, 46 Jos. Peter Lumley, 47 Geo. Thompson MacLeroy, 48 Wm.
Mendenhall, 73 Malcolm Jas. Dunbar Moodie, 55 Jno. Ross, 62 W. Swift, 74 Edwin Tarboton, and 66 Jas. Whitelaw.
You will notice Charles Borain's regtl. no. was 17.
The regtl. no. 290 you supply for Borain (per Dutton) is too high.
70 Boshof is not an address. Look in Dutton's index of names and page references. You'll find the following:
Borain, Trooper, 70
Boshof, Trooper K. 167
Somehow, by an ingenious piece of editing, the text has copied and reproduced this as
"290 Trooper Borain, 70 Boshof"
No doubt this is where the 290 error crept in.

Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue May 09, 2023 7:34 pm

Hi Julian

I'm not implying he was in with the 22 Cabineers, which you keep referring to.
His medal record states that he was in the Port Elizabeth Volunteer Horse at the time and died at Isandlwana, a different corps and a different man than Trooper C Borain of the Cabineers.
He did exist, and was present in the Zulu war 1877-8-9, his military medal card states he died at Isandlwana, I have seen it posted in a post to me on another site, I will attempt to get a copy.
Could it be that he may have been attached to another unit, who knows, but if it is true, then it would explain George Borain collecting his son Henry's belongings, and maybe not Charles 's.

Regards
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyTue May 09, 2023 8:44 pm

Hi Julian

I have not got the book, but I am reading pages from "Forgotten Heroes Zulu & Basuto wars" on the internet.
The page that lists his name is 149, second column, if it is the same as the book, which it should be.

In the same book it lists a Colonial medal summary where 7 members of the Port of Elizabeth Volunteer Horse 1877-8-9 are listed.

There is also a J Borain listed on page 70 in the Duke of Edinburgh Volunteer Rifles.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed May 10, 2023 7:29 am

Eddie
But the PEVH were not present at Isandhlwana.
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed May 10, 2023 11:57 am

Hi again

There seems to be a lot of information that points at him being there.

His death notice in the newspaper, I have not seen one for Charles. But we cannot disregard Charles as he is confirmed as being a Trooper in the Cabineers, one of the 22 that died at Isandlwana.

His father collecting his belongings also stated in the newspaper. Maybe he was not collecting Charles's belongings after all.
He being listed as a casualty in a number of publications.
He being listed as a casualty in AngloBoerWar.com, as I mentioned above.
His Military medal record states 1877-8-9 as being in the Zulu war.
Chalmsfordthescapegoat, Littlehand and maybe others listing him as a casualty at Isandlwana.

Angelfire.lycos.com/ Angelfire.com also list a Corporal Borain as died at Isandlwana. Who this website belongs to I do not know, perhaps a SA site.


I know that members of the family are under the impression that there were two Borain's at the battle.
With that said we cannot disregard Henry as having not been present because the Port Elizabeth Volunteer Horse were deemed not to be.
The question is, if it is true, who was he attached to, or what roll did he play, if any.
There were a very small amount of the Port Elizabeth Volunteer Horse in receipt of the 1877-8-9 medal, were they overlooked by the original compiler?

PEVH members in n receipt of 1877-8-9 medal:
Capt Nettleton WJ
Sgt Rutherford J
Cpl Ellis FW
Pete Brockett EJ
Pete Gaskell T
Pete Goldsmith G (total 7 as per Dutton's medal list, Cpl Borain being the 7th)

Another couple of points:
The Prince Alfred Vol Horse are also not listed as taking part however, a Pte GC Christian a member died at Isandlwana.
Also:
Fort White mounted Vol are also not listed as taking part however, a Sgt J Murray a member is listed as died at Isandlwana.


I am in communication with other members of the family and hopefully we can gain more information from them in the near future.

Regards


Last edited by Eddie on Wed May 10, 2023 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : To add more information)
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed May 10, 2023 2:34 pm

Christian switched to the Carbineers.
Murray switched to the NNC.
There is no record of a Borain being an NNC NCO.
There's not a lot of room for manoeuvre left. I can't see his being a waggon driver/conductor.
Good luck with your search!
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed May 10, 2023 2:35 pm

Eddie
Personally I think you should pursue the family angle. I'm sure you'll find he died of disease or elsewhere.
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed May 10, 2023 3:06 pm

Hi

One of the Colonial units listed on the site is Natal Volunteer Guides, (composite unit). Do we know who were the members of this unit?

Yes I will continue to unearth whatever I can from the family members.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed May 10, 2023 3:17 pm

Prior to the second invasion of Zululand, a call was made for volunteers to serve in an ad hoc unit, made up from the Volunteer units that had served with Pearson’s column and the newly-arrived Isipingo Mounted Rifles.
Twenty men from the Victoria Mounted Rifles volunteered to serve in what would be called the Natal Volunteer Guides. It comprised approx. 55 men, was commanded by Captain Friend Addison, and took part in at the battle of Gingindhlovu and other operations, all post-April, before finally returning home in August 1879.  


Last edited by Julian Whybra on Wed May 10, 2023 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Eddie




Posts : 794
Join date : 2022-07-13
Age : 65
Location : Newport Wales

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed May 10, 2023 4:28 pm

Cheers Julian for explaining that.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 4017
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Empty
PostSubject: Re: Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty   carbineers - Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty EmptyWed May 10, 2023 5:29 pm

Eddie
A warning. When exploring what the web had to offer re Henry Borain, I found there were three pages. In exploring the third page I went on to a website which looked promising but immediately resulted in my being bombarded with pop-up windows telling me my pc was infected and trying to divert me to websites which would cleanse it. My pc was NOT of course infected other than by these blasted pop-up windows.
The malware (zationchrosity) simply re-directs the user to other websites and was fairly easy to get rid of once I found out how. Anyway, just avoid the less likely Borain sites or else you'll be wasting 30 minutes of your life removing malware.
If anyone wants advice on its removal, pm me and I'll send you the info as to how.
Back to top Go down
 
Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Trooper Blaikie Natal Carbineers
» Trooper W Sibthorpe, Natal Carbineers
» Trooper W. Sibthorpe, Natal Carbineers, a survivor of the massacre at Isandhlwana

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENEALOGY-
Jump to: