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» What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyMon Jul 22, 2024 6:53 am by John Young

» Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptySat Jul 20, 2024 12:17 pm by SRB1965

» Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 18, 2024 11:11 am by Julian Whybra

» The Wrecked Camp
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyWed Jul 17, 2024 4:33 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private N/N John Robert Branch 90th Regiment and his discovered diary
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» Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large
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» 90th foot sgt T. Collins 214
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» Baron Von Steitencron
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» Sgt Joseph Windridge, Defender of Rorke's Drift - Memorial
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» Writing advice
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» South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptySun Jul 07, 2024 9:30 am by rai

» The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN

» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN

» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 11:18 am by Wayne

» Bassage Diary
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra

» Prior to Sihayo's Kraal
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 9:19 am by 90th

» British Fort Locations
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 3:40 am by 90th

» Sergeant 1064 Tom Hick / Hicks G Company 2/24th Regiment
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyWed Jul 03, 2024 11:05 am by Julian Whybra

» A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyFri Jun 28, 2024 2:31 pm by Mr M. Cooper

» Private 25B/279 Henry Sears Bugler E Company 24th Reg. KIA Isandlwana
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jun 27, 2024 1:07 pm by gardner1879

» Hamilton Browne's birthday
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyFri Jun 21, 2024 9:22 am by Julian Whybra

» Zulu "Corps"
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» Army Pay Department Personnel
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» Ntshingwayo birth date
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» Zibhebhu and Cetshwayo's family
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» Smith's Store/Hotel
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyWed Jun 05, 2024 6:06 pm by Julian Whybra

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyTue Jun 04, 2024 5:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» Shaka iLembe
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» Bugler 1415 Thomas Finn / Flin 90th Regiment
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptySat May 25, 2024 11:28 am by johnman

» Inspector-General Evelyn Richard Hugh Pollard
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyTue May 14, 2024 10:13 am by ADMIN

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptySat May 11, 2024 8:01 am by Julian Whybra

» Fairlie's Native Police
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm by Hobbes

» 24th Regiment side drum a plea for help
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu May 02, 2024 6:11 pm by General Gordon

» Francis Shirley Russell 14th Hussars
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyMon Apr 29, 2024 12:20 pm by IntCorpsMedals

» Looking for the medal to 1423 Pte. W. Gregg/Greig
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptySat Apr 27, 2024 1:46 am by sam steele

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» What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptySun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix

» Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyFri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965

» Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyWed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra

» The Wrecked Camp
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptySun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH

» The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN

» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN

» South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)
South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 1:50 pm by paulhellier

» British Fort Locations
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» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment
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 South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)

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paulhellier




Posts : 4
Join date : 2024-07-03

South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) Empty
PostSubject: South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)   South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 1:50 pm

This medal is unique to O Battery 2 Brigade being the sole recipiant. I cannot find his papers so know little or nothing of where he served in the Cape.
He joined the RA 7th Dec. '73 having just served one month's hard labour for stealing a silver watch from his landlady and was discharged 12th Dec.'85.
His medal roll shows he was in action against the Galekas and Gaikas and other tribes in 1877-8 and against Zulus and Sekukini(sic) 1879.

The question is what battery or brigade did he serve with? I lean towards N/5 but I have little knowledge of the campaign.

He joined the Royal Navy in 1886 serving for many years on HMS Royalist which conducted a series of Blue Jacket retributional operations through the Western Pacific Territories in what was euphemistically known as Commodore Justice under the infamous Captain Meggs Davis a man of ferocious temperament.

Any help would be appreciated guys

Paul Hellier
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Julian Whybra




Posts : 4021
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) Empty
PostSubject: Re: South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)   South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyThu Jul 04, 2024 10:34 pm

I've never come across him in any of N/5's papers.
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90th

90th


Posts : 10890
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 68
Location : Melbourne, Australia

South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) Empty
PostSubject: South Africa 1877-79 , I clasp 1877-78-79 4389 Sgt S Smith O/2 Bgde    South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyFri Jul 05, 2024 4:08 am

Actually there were two medals awarded to O/2 Bgde , your man Smith entitled to the Clasp 1879 , the other ( they were both Farrier Sgts ) , 2099 James Mc A entitled to the Clasp 1877-78-79 .
90th Salute
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paulhellier




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South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) Empty
PostSubject: Re: South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)   South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyFri Jul 05, 2024 5:42 pm

Julian Whybra wrote:
I've never come across him in any of N/5's papers.

Hi Julian I forgot to add that his full name is Selah Smith with clasp 1877-8-9. Do you think he could have volunteered for duty in S.A. with N/5 but had his medal named to his home battery?
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paulhellier




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South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) Empty
PostSubject: Re: South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)   South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyFri Jul 05, 2024 6:22 pm

90th wrote:
Actually there were two medals awarded to O/2 Bgde , your man Smith entitled to the Clasp 1879 , the other ( they were both Farrier Sgts )  , 2099 James Mc A entitled to the Clasp 1877-78-79 .
90th Salute

Hi 90th You are correct but there is another medal roll (Appendix to G.O 103) in which it shows Selah Smith as entitled to 1877-8 being in action agained the Galekas and Gaikas and other tribes and 1879 being engaged against the Zulus. He is the only name on the roll and his medal reflects these events. Signed 22nd June 1881 at Devonport
I further note from your observed Roll that O/2 had 1879 clasp medals to Lt-Col Brown Tatton and Capt. Alleyne and a no clasp to Gunner Private J Brown although the last man may have been with 7/1 unless that is a date. I struggle with my 82 year old eyes.
From this info who do you think Smith may have been attached to? Much appreciate any help. Paul
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Julian Whybra




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South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) Empty
PostSubject: Re: South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)   South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptyFri Jul 05, 2024 8:43 pm

paulhellier
Bill and I have been researching a complete roll of both squadrons of the Imperial Mounted Infantry with a view to publishing it soon (!)  Your man was a member of this unit.
4389 Shoeing-Smith Selah Smith, O/2 R.A.
To Pay I.M.I. 25.9.1878; served with the 2nd Squadron, Imperial Mounted Infantry and remained with them throughout the Zulu War; promoted to Farrier-Sergeant & later reduced to Shoeing-Smith within this period of service (precise dates of promotion unknown and reason for reduction not stated).
Being a bit of a hotchpotch creation, the I.M.I. took specialists from wherever they could whenever.
I hope this answers your question.


Last edited by Julian Whybra on Sat Jul 06, 2024 12:21 pm; edited 3 times in total
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90th

90th


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South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) Empty
PostSubject: South Africa 1877-79 , I clasp 1877-78-79 4389 Sgt S Smith O/2 Bgde    South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptySat Jul 06, 2024 2:36 am

Hi Paul
Your comment here .
I further note from your observed Roll that O/2 had 1879 clasp medals to Lt-Col Brown Tatton and Capt. Alleyne and a no clasp to Gunner Private J Brown although the last man may have been with 7/1 unless that is a date. I struggle with my 82 year old eyes.
From this info who do you think Smith may have been attached to? Much appreciate any help. Paul

I see in the Dutton Rolls these chaps are listed under the 'Royal Horse Artillery ' not O / 2 Bgde . In Dutton O/2 Bgde has the same two men mentioned Smith and James , as they were mentioned in the Forsythe Roll I initially posted , I see Julian has found where your man was serving .
90th Salute
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paulhellier




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South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) Empty
PostSubject: Re: South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)   South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptySat Jul 06, 2024 11:19 am

Gentlemen Julian and 90th.
Many thanks indeed for all your help and much appreciated. Smith's demotion comes as no surprise as his Navy record shows a similar pattern of service. Again many thanks. Paul
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rai




Posts : 1074
Join date : 2009-10-16

South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) Empty
PostSubject: Re: South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)   South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.) EmptySun Jul 07, 2024 9:30 am

Hi All,
Not in any order, Census 1881 RA Barracks Woolwich, Shoe Smith B.1857 Allsense Northamptonshire,Birth record march qtr 1857 Hardingstone Northants, census 1861, priory of St Andrew Northampton father Thomas Shoemaker, mother mary one of 3 kids age 4, census 1871, All Saints Northampton at fathers he wheelwright out of employment age 14 he born Gitteryton Northants, census 1901 crew HMS Tamar Devonport, Rank Blk Mate [blacksmith?] now married. census 1911 Bedwelty monmouthshire he Labourer above ground [mining], married to Elizabeth A [she b.1864 milford Haven] grandson Selah Henry born Devonport.
Our Selah Dies March Qtr 1930 age 72 Bedwelty District.
Only military record Attested 6 Dec 1873, discharged 5 Dec 1885, no.13213 Shoe Smith time expired.
1910 living at a Mrs Cohen's Devonport Plymouth. Census 1921 he is a widow with grandson in Bedwelty District. His grandson Selah Henry was born 7 Nov 1901 Devonport baptised at St Mark's Ford Plymouth, Fathers name Henry[this would be our Selah's son] he is RN Artificer.
The grandson dies June qtr 1952 Pontypool District.
It is likely a relative Joseph Selah Smith was born in 1999 in Newport Monmouthshire District.
Rai KLH
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South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)
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