Durnford's Watch

Posts : 2594 Join date : 2009-04-24

But he left the ring and pocket knife. Latter having Durnfords initials on . Plus he had met Durnford before, and going by a description of Durnford. If you had seen him, you wouldn't forget him.

Posts : 7 Join date : 2011-09-01

Hello Springbok

Great uncle Godfrey signed in both his own name JG Thrupp and in his pen name JG Lefebre. All annotations are clearly legible. One note mentions "Lonsdale" as the source?? He has been quite meticulous in stating exactly what is fantasy and what is an actual eye-witness account or told to himn by another eye-witness. There is very little of the author's imagination and mostly factual information in these 40 odd pages. Uncle Godfrey is the same Dr Thrupp mentioned throughout "The Unknown Horn of Africa".

I will try to get you the actual quote about the watch- there seem to be some members trying to portray Godfrey as a grave robber! I assure you that he was a gentleman and an educated man who took pains to find the true owners. He had never met Durnford - I really do not know where these people are getting their information - they have no sources to quote and it seems wrong to defame the character of a dead man who cannot defend himself .

Subject: Re: Durnford's Watch Thu May 10, 2012 7:31 am

MFletcher

Hi there
I dont know if your last post was misdirected or not however I dont agree that he could be construed as robbing the dead.
I am in touch with Simon Luterbacher and will be liasing with him over the next few weeks.

Regards

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 26

Morris says he simply spotted the watch as the column was moving out entangled in a mess waist coat
and picked it up, he tried to find the owner through the news paper, and when thay failed he asked Frere who
told him to take to the Colonso, who recognized it at once.

Cheers

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 43

Quote :: he asked Frere who told him to take to the Colonso, who recognized it at once.

Why on earth would he ask Frere, and why on earth would Frere say take iT to the Colenso's.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 26

because Frere new a lot of the officers that were killed......

Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12

Mehlokazulu Kasihayo.

Quote :: A: No. I saw Colonel Durnford returing from the Buffalo River. I didn't see who killed him, but when I returned, Some men from the iNgobamakhosi Regiment were taking some things and they called me over to look at the strange character on hi arm. I'll try to find out about the sabre and if I can obtain it, I'll return it.

Quote :: "Each Zulu took what he could carry, like watches and other things."

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 43

Good point Chard.!

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 26

What was the point of posting that in this topic Question

Cheers

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 43

Possibllities. Of what happen to the watch.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 26

It was taken by Dr Thrupp and then given to Edward Durnford........

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 43

I thought he gave it to the Colenso's.

Posts : 1095 Join date : 2009-01-14 Location : East London

I thought the watch inquestion was lost in a fire. An accident when burning the plantations, which spread to the Fannies home. I sure this was in one of Colenso's letters. ( could be wrong)

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 60 Location : UK

Norris-Newman writes account from one of the officers that visited Isandlwana on the day Durnfords body was found.

He say's a pocket Knife and rings were removed by Stepsone and sent to his familey.there was no mention of a watch. His body was wrapped in canvas and placed in a water wash (Whatever that is)

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 26

John his watch was taken on the morning of the 23rd of January by Dr Thrupp.

Cheers

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 60 Location : UK

That's what puzzling me. Why did he just take the watch and not the rings and pocket knife. The rings would have been more visible than the watch.

Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 26

Anyone know who bourght the book ??

Cheers

Subject: Re: Durnford's Watch Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:45 pm

DB. Here's a bit more..It sold for £600. But no indication to who.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
"description
Battle of Issandlwana and aftermath

(Durnford's Watch).- [Thrupp (James Godfrey, surgeon, member of the Royal College of Surgeons, author, served as civil surgeon with the 1-24th Regiment during the Zulu War in South Africa 1879, grandson of Joseph Thrupp, the coach builder of Grosvenor Square, 1849-1913), "J.G. Lefebre" & A. Egmont Hake. The New Dance of Death, first edition, 3 vol., J.G. Thrupp's copy with his original signed pencil annotations on the piece in vol. II concerning the battle of Issandlwana and its aftermath, ink inscription torn away from corner of each title, vol. I lower free endpaper corner torn away, some other small tears, browned, original decorated cloth, worn, vol. I covers detached, lacks spine, vol. III lower cover loose, vol. II & III spines working loose, 8vo, 1884.

*** A unique Zulu War item.

James Godfrey Thrupp was a surgeon at St. Thomas's Hospital in London and became for a short time, Civil Surgeon during the Zulu Wars in South Africa. Due to the illness of a colleague he was too late to attend the battle at Issandlwana but arrived shortly afterwards and was responsible for removing Colonel Durnford's pocket watch after the battle. Later, Thrupp under the pseudonym of J.G. Lefebre (his mother's maiden name) collaborated with Alfred Egmont Hake in writing The New Dance of Death, a novel, but with an account of the battle of Issandlwana (and Rorke's Drift) and Thrupp's recollection of the actual events as he saw them after the battle and with his notes identifying fictitious and accurate parts of the text.

(1). Page 28. Starting, "That march back from Matyana's stronghold was effected with extraordinary rapidity..." and Thrupp's note: "The following is an exact statement of what really happened, as witnessed by the Author himself JGT."

(2) Durnford's Watch. "...Beaumont walked on slowly until he was arrested by ['finding' substituted for 'recognising' by the author] the body of an officer who had held a high command. It lay head downwards, and was only partially stripped; a mess waistcoat, and the shirt beneath it, had been torn open, and hanging from a slender chain, fixed into a button-hole, was a small gold watch and bunch of charms. The expression of the face was peaceful, and the corpse apparently disfigured by only one long deep wound. Beaumont knelt down and removed the watch and
chain, then taking up one of the cold stiffened hands shook it warmly, murmuring: 'Good-bye, dear old friend, you've done your best, and died hard, I know. I feel I could almost gladly change places with you.' This man had been a brave soldier, a good example and kind friend to all the men under him. The watch had been stopped by blood trickling into the works, and the hands pointed to a quarter to three." - Thrupp. A New Dance of Death, 1884. "

Subject: Re: Durnford's Watch Fri May 05, 2017 1:34 pm

Guest
Just as a by the by, Durnford's daughter did not disappear from history. She married a descendant of one of Napoleon's generals, N. McIvor Rapp in 1883, lived quietly in Bexhill-on-Sea, Sussex, and died in 1919 without issue.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Bonjour,
A mystery solved ("Durnford's daughter did not disappear from history")!...
If it is Jean Rapp (i.E "Napoléon's Générals"), a famous soldier and General ...
Cheers
Frédéric

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

This is Frances Durnford's marriage certificate. Note that they had to return to add two further first names to Rapp's entry making seven
in all! One of the witnesses was Edward Durnford.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steve

Subject: Re: Durnford's Watch Tue May 09, 2017 2:10 pm

Frederic
Yes, that's him, Nicholas's grandfather.
Rusteze
It's six forenames in total - one new one plus one in the wrong place.

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

A touch of the Diane Abbotts!

Steve

Subject: Re: Durnford's Watch Tue May 09, 2017 2:40 pm

A nasty thing to come down with.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Mr Whybra and Steve, thanks for the information about Frances Durnford.
The name of Rapp (d.1821) is inscribed on one of the pillars of the Arc de Triomphe de l'Elysée at Paris.
(The wife of Jean Rapp died in 1879).

Cheers

Frédéric

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