| Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home | |
|
|
Author | Message |
---|
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:18 am | |
| There is no historical evidence for this but it's just one of my ‘hypotheticals’ - obviously the title is misleading because there is no way the Zulus knew the location of Lord C himself
The conventional idea is that the Zulus had no idea that Lord C split this forces a second time - ie his nighttime march to Dartnell's aide.
Even had the Zulus have had scouts - they couldn't have seen much, due to Lord C leaving quietly, the darkness and the mist.
I'm fine so far.
However, the Zulus had heard gunfire from Mangeni (sometime attributed to causing the false start?)
The events were happening in Zululand and there was a large number of Zulus in the area of Dartnell who disappeared (overnight)
What was it something like 11 miles along the road/track from Isandlwana to Mangeni, maybe shorter on tribal tracks?
I think once gunfire was heard Ntishingwayo would have been lax not to send scouts and would have possibly sent out, similarly I find it hard to believe that he hadn't got word of Dartnell being out and sent ‘observers’.
|
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:15 pm | |
| Why would've the big man have word of Dartnell being out? You've already answered that at the top of your post! |
|
| |
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:30 pm | |
| So you think he didn't know Dartnell was out?
Where did 'Dartnells' Zulus go over the night of the 21st?
Because they did not appear to be there in the morning of the 22nd.
I must say I'm a bit confused by your answer. |
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:54 pm | |
| The Zulus kept Dartnell's gang where they wanted them to be on the night of the 21st, then they, the Zulus slipped away to join up with the main army. Good stuff from the Zulus. I've been up at around 5ish in the morning whilst staying at Isandlwana Lodge, and a really misty morning as well, similar to the 22nd. I can tell you it was like a complete blanket covering the plain, and it didn't really lift till about 8ish. So, if that's what the weather conditions were like on that morning, Chelmsford's would've been already-ish at Mangeni, etc. |
|
| |
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Tue Oct 29, 2024 5:09 pm | |
| So Dartnells Zulus joined the main army - we are of an accord so far.
Did nee arrived Zulus keep it to themselves or report to Ntishingwayo ? - logically tell him
Wouldn't Ntishingwayo have sent scouts to watch Dartnell - it was an enemy force to his flank or rear.
If Ntishingwayo did have these scouts out, would they not have seen Lord C when the mist lifted at Mangeni. |
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Tue Oct 29, 2024 5:24 pm | |
| Word of Dartnell's position would've been reported to someone, yes. Don't forget that when Russell was doing his mounted patrols, he reported that the surrounding areas were alive with small groups of Zulus. So, yes, those bands of Zulus were keeping a good watch. |
|
| |
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Tue Oct 29, 2024 5:32 pm | |
| Ok thanks
In your original answer should you have put "wouldn't have" |
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Tue Oct 29, 2024 5:57 pm | |
| No. Why would've he known that Chelmsford was heading for the Mangeni area.
|
|
| |
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:12 pm | |
| I didn't actually say did he see him leaving.
We know they didn't see Lord C leaving - Mehlakazulu confirms that he (himself) didn't know (but he was faffing around looking at the camp). but it's when Lord C was at Mangeni - the scouts watching Dartnell? Response to hearing gunfire?
BTW I am not trying to imply that Ntishingwayo's knowledge of the British second split, was the reason for him committing to attack the camp. |
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:25 pm | |
| When Chelmsford got to Mangeni, most of the Zulus had already left, although he would've stil beenl observed (well hidden.) The gunfire would be really hard to judge where exactly that was coming from due to the surrounding hills, folds in the ground. Is that what you mean? |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:27 pm | |
| What evidence do you have that the Mangeni Zulus or a part of them slipped away to join the main army on the Nqutu? LC & co were still chasing them on or near the Mangeni on the morning of the 22nd. As for Ntshingwayo sending out scouts to follow LC when he moved out, i don't think that would be very likely. If one were caught, he might give away the true location of the impi. |
|
| |
drenai2
Posts : 1 Join date : 2024-10-30
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:56 pm | |
| - SRB1965 wrote:
- I didn't actually say did he see him leaving.
We know they didn't see Lord C leaving - Mehlakazulu confirms that he (himself) didn't know (but he was faffing around looking at the camp). but it's when Lord C was at Mangeni - the scouts watching Dartnell? Response to hearing gunfire?
BTW I am not trying to imply that Ntishingwayo's knowledge of the British second split, was the reason for him committing to attack the camp. Its long stuck in my head on why the zulu command were not aware of Chemsfords general position that morning. I get that the mists would have covered a 2am departure and hidden them until 8 or 9am. It makes sense that scouts would have spotted them fairly quickly so one would assume that someone was sent form the scout party to report to the main army. How long would it have taken to reach the Ngwebeni valley? how long was it likely to have been from the shots being fired & heard in the general area of the falls to the discovery of the impi itself RE:-Response to hearing gunfire? I have read many accounts not only from then but also from recent visitors that the acoustics in that area can seem to play games with sounds being echoed and bounced off various hill features making it hard to tell from where the gunfire actually was originating. As a result local zulus guiding the army would have known this phenomenon and with known British movement I'd have thought any gunfire would have caused little concern. Assuming conditions had cleared somewhen between 8am & 10am I still find it odd that scouts could not have spotted Chemsfords force and then informed the zulu command. As I understand it the impi was discovered about 11.45am and once that happened it all kicked off and as suck out of the hands of the senior commanders. |
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:47 pm | |
| I have not said that some/most of the Zulus that opposed Dartnell on the night of the 21st joined up with the main army on the Ngutu. (Please read posts carefully.) I said that most would've slipped away to join up with the main army. That would've been in the vicinity of the Ngwebeni Valley. What evidence have you got that some/most of the same Zulus opposed to Dartnell on that night didn't slip away?And, I have not said that Ntshingwayo sent any scouts out to follow Chelmsford. (Please read posts carefully.) I said that, the surrounding areas in & around that vicinity were alive with small bands of Zulus. Russell reported that, so you can take it up with him! |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:43 pm | |
| Warrior3 Well, since the Ngwebeni flows through the Nqutu plateau and out from its eastern. it's one and the same thing. The point is it's where the impi was. So, I repeat: where is the evidence that the two forces joined up. Matshana certainly didn't join the impi (indeed he was not wanted there apparently). Have you ever come across a Zulu account which purports to be by a warrior who was with Matshana and then joined the main impi? I certainly haven't. My comment re scouts was in response to SRB's post. But, since you mention Russell, he did report the area alive with small bands of Zulus, but these were not coming from the direction of the main impi, were not observing or tracking Chelmsford's movements, and were in an area in front of and retreating before Russell's men. |
|
| |
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:13 pm | |
| I don't actually believe that Ntishingwayo sent scout out following Lord C because the Zulus didn't know he'd left but my basic scenario is:-
Dartnell went out on the 21st
Dartnell got windy and stayed out overnight, confronted by a large number of Zulus.
Dartnell sent message to Lord C saying he's overnighting and help?
Lord C moves out (early morning) to go to Dartnell's aide - unbeknownst to the Zulus in the Ngwebini Valley.
On the morning of the 22nd Dartnell finds himself alone.
The main force of the Zulus have left to join Ntishingwayo possibly leaving observers or scouts - either way undoubtedly reporting the Dartnell force to Ntishingwayo?
By the time Lord C gets to Mangeni only a few Zulus remain to give him the run around - skirmishing around the hills (the gunfire from this skirmishing attributed with the false start of the army at Isandlwana)
The same observers left watching Dartnell must have seen the British army join him.
If so would they have let Ntishingwayo know about the arrival of a large force of British?
Obviously if you don't believe that the Mangeni Zulus joined the main Impi, it all falls flat or at least is a complication.
Would any responsible commander not have had scouts all round his army. Even more so if he was aware of Dartnell being in his location? |
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Thu Oct 31, 2024 6:30 pm | |
| Julian, Are you actually saying that none of Matshana's warriors would've slipped away in the early hours to join up with their mates in the Ngwebini area? This really doesn't need to have any recorded evidence, it's common sense. Because those warriors weren't interviewed, as were thousands upon thousands of others, does not mean it didn't happen. Of course it did. |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:37 pm | |
| warrior3 I assume you read my post carefully so you'll know that I wrote "the Mangeni Zulus or a part of them" as a body did not decamp to the Ngwebeni river valley. I don't deny that odd individuals might have slipped away in ones and twos (although I'm not sure how they would have known where the impi was). I also find the route they might have taken difficult. As regards requiring recorded evidence, I'm afraid that everything relating to Isandhlwana requires it. Saying 'of course it did' is simply shouting into the wind.
|
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 8:32 am | |
| Julian, Of course some of them would've known where the huge army was! And, stating/saying something that didn't happen without recorded evidence is also "shouting into the wind." |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 8:49 am | |
| warrior3 "Of course some of them would've known where the huge army was!" Why of course? "And, stating/saying something that didn't happen without recorded evidence is also shouting into the wind." How do you expect there to have been recorded evidence of something that didn't happen? That's illogical. |
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 9:18 am | |
| Julian, No it's not. Your saying that they wouldn't of known where the huge army was, and, the route they might've taken would've been difficult! We all know how good their intelligence system worked, and the locals would've known how to get to the Ngwebini area, probably blindfolded. Mike Snook wrote a fascinating account of the battle of Isandlwana, as you know. Yes, lack of footnotes/recorded evidence, but he applied logic, common sense, a soldier's perspective, and he came up with something that was probably not far from the truth. Shouting into the wind? Maybe/maybe not. |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:05 am | |
| warrior3 Mike S wrote a beautiful moving account in defence of his beloved regiment. He was a soldier not an historian but it's a perceptive thought-provoking account for all that. Sometimes his remarks were justifiable from his experience as a modern soldier. They didn't always pertain to a soldier from 1879 but even so, they still had a validity. Now, re your "No, it's not". If you say the sky is green and I say it isn't, well, it isn't up to me to prove it's not. You made the initial assertion that "the Zulus [on the Mangeni] slipped away to join up with the main army". I am simply asking what evidence you have to support your statement. If you can't supply it, fine, it is something to be explored. |
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:23 am | |
| Julian, Agreed, sort of. But historical statements/recorded evidence is not at all (sometimes) to be taken as gospel. People lie, exaggerate, make-up for attention seeking purposes. one example - Intombie Drift, now take Lt. Harwood's Statement - basically he states the camp was overrun & he galloped in to save his life & everyone is slaughtered. We all know that he scarpered because he bottled-it. But, had not Booth held his nerve, & the others with him, etc, Harwood's statement would've been taken as fact. And I could speak about many others. |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:38 am | |
| Fine. You don't have any evidence and it is something to be explored. You are correct that historical evidence cannot always be taken as Gospel. But hearsay and opinion certainly can't. Interestingly I've been checking in the interim to see whether any historians had made a similar suggestion in print to yours. Coupland no. Morris no. Jackson no. Knight no. Droogleever no. Snook no. L&Q not yet (this e-mail interrupts my search). |
|
| |
warrior3
Posts : 114 Join date : 2010-06-28 Age : 59 Location : Maidstone, Kent
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:52 am | |
| Julian, But quite a bit of historical evidence handed down is of "hearsay & opinion." |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 11:03 am | |
| And is accordingly unreliable and therefore discarded or treated with the utmost caution. |
|
| |
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 1:27 pm | |
| I don't believed I have read anything regarding the Zulus knowing that Lord C was out.
Mehlakazulu when asked if he saw Lord Cs army leave camp says - no we heard the the reports of firearms and saw them returning.
Guku mentions the English advance guard engaging Matyanas men.
This seems to be reference to the skirmishing around Mangeni, so it works appear not everyone was confused by the acoustics of the area
|
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:56 pm | |
| SRB Everything I've studied endorses that view. |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:35 pm | |
| L&Q are a no too. Interestingly they quote figures of 140 killed and 80 prisoners having chased Matshana's people as far south as his stronghold. Annoyingly they only seem to quote secondary sources most of the time. |
|
| |
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:23 pm | |
| I do find 'local Zulus' puzzling.
A number of local chieftains seemed to have had their own forces (Siyaho, Matshana etc) - shouldn't these warriors be part of the ibutho system and mustered at Ulundi?
In the case of Matshana - it seemed to be fairly large force.
I can understand semi 'autonomous' groups such as the abaqulusi.
|
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:49 pm | |
| SRB About 10% didn't respond to the summons to muster at the king's kraal. Matshana's loyalty was in doubt apparently and thoughts that he might even side with the British. He didn't but he might have been sitting on the fence for just a tad too long. The estimates for Matshana's 'force' range from 500-700 warriors. |
|
| |
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:04 pm | |
| Thanks
One Zulu account mentions that Matshana was a 'Natal' Zulu (possibly meaning leanings) and that Ntishingwayo deliberately avoided him (on his march to Isandlwana)
However, I'm never sure which one of the 'two' Matshana's he was - presumably not the one who turned up at Isandlwana with a few old muskets.
Cheers |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:09 pm | |
| |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Sun Nov 03, 2024 11:06 am | |
| Matshana had been settled in Natal but following the Natal government's discovery of his use of witchcraft he had been allowed back into Zululand and settled in the Qudeni Bush area. Just before the war he expressed his desire to Fynn of returning the 'British fold'. His loyalty was thus in question and he wasn't trusted by many Zulu commanders. |
|
| |
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Sun Nov 03, 2024 11:20 am | |
| Interesting thank you, Julian |
|
| |
Tig Van Milcroft
Posts : 130 Join date : 2022-02-21
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Yesterday at 9:49 pm | |
| SRB There is in my opinion a destructive confusion in the "official" accounts regarding the "two Matyanas", which has always struck me as highly suspicious. There is no doubt in my mind at least that there was absolutely no confusion in the mind of Lord Chelmsford or Henry Francis Fynn, personal interpreter and Political advisor to Lord Chelmsford as to who these personages were or where they were based. Why there is no descimination between the two in later accounts is strange.
Matshana ka Mondisa was originally a Natal chief, he fell out with the Natal authorities after a smelling out followed by its usual consequences. An attempted reconciliation resulted in the use of firearms, after which he departed into Zululand, with a hearty distrust of the British and the Shepstone in 1858. He was welcomed by Cetshweyo and lived with his people in the Qudeni forest.
Matshana ka Sitshakuza was a border chief of people living in the Buffalo valley, the Malakatha and the Mangene gorge.
Lord Chelmsford's target after arrival at Isandlwana was to either drive the Zulus in front of his force towards Ulundi, to capture cattle, or to disarm and take hostages for loyalty to secure his flanks and the Buffalo valley, the border to Natal. It is clear that it was Matyana ka Sitshakuza who was his target for reconnaissance in sending Dartnell down to Mangene, and later one reason for sending half his force there on 22nd January.
It is recorded that Matshana ka Mondisa was with the main impi on 21st January in the area of Babanango.
There is much confusion as to who was where and when. There is as much confusion as to numbers on the night of 21st/22nd January 1879, there is little evidence to be sure.
The old muskets man was Gandama a tributary chief to Matyana ka Sitshakuza, who was also a brother of Sirayo.
Both Gandama and Matshana ka Sitshakuza living where they did in close proximity to the border would have had an accommodation with the Natal Authorities and would be known to people like Fynn. They would be ambivalent toward both Cetshwayo and the British, effectively squeezed between the two. It is I think instructive to see that Gandama caved to Chelmsford, whilst Matyana ka Sishakuza did not, at least until August 1879, the same time as Matyana ka Mondisa.
There is a record of “Matyana” being recognised by “Captain Shepstone” (T Junior I believe). I believe this Matyana was Matyana ka Shitshakuza, rather than ka Mondisa, though I may be wrong. It seems to me that Matyana ka Mondisa being an exile from Natal for the past 21 years would not be immediately recognised by Shepstone Jnr who would have been 15 years old when Mondisa went into exile. It is much more likely he would have recognised Matyana ka Sitshakuza.
I note Julian’s point regarding the 10% no shows, I am not aware of any evidence that Matyana was one of the 10%, if there is I would be interested to know the source.
There is more to this conundrum of the Matyanas. |
|
| |
SRB1965
Posts : 1253 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Yesterday at 10:33 pm | |
| |
|
| |
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4157 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Today at 8:05 am | |
| Tig Where is it recorded that Matshana ka Mondisa was with the main impi on 21st January in the area of Babanango? Messengers passed between Ntshingwayo (main impi) and this Matshana (his own stronghold and Mangeni Gorge). That was all. Shepstone recognized Matshana ka Mondisa, not Matshana ka Sitshakuza. The latter was not with the former's warriors when Shepstone was chasing them. |
|
| |
Tig Van Milcroft
Posts : 130 Join date : 2022-02-21
| Subject: Re: Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home Today at 8:45 am | |
| Julian,
One for one?
The record of Uguku states "As soon as he (Matyana) was gone they took another road, viz north of the Babanango.."
From this we know that Matyana was in the area of the Phindo sometime 21st.
Do you have a reference to confirm it was MkaM not MkaS that was chased by Shepstone? I have stated my case for the alternative.
This also ties with Russell's location of "trampled grass of an impi" I quote from memory so this may not be quite accurate but is the meaning.
I do not understand your reference to "this Matshana" MkaM's base and stronghold was not in the Mangene it was Qudeni, I believe you confuse him with MkaS in this instance, perhaps I am wrong if so please give a record to the contrary.
This also may explain the additional forces that may have concerned Dartnell late on 21st, they certainly were not there on the 22nd.
As I have stated before these may have been the chaps that Barker saw in the distance and moved off Qwabe as a result soon after sunrise. Moving north to Ngwebeni. |
|
| |
| Did Ntishingwayo really not know Lord C wasn't at home | |
|