Important "lost" artifact that should be at Brecon?

I may be throwing the cat amongst the pigeons with this, but I think it needs throwing. As a young man, way back in the late 1970's, I visited the regimental museum of the Sherwood Foresters at Nottingham Castle on several occasions. In those days it was a great museum, packed with objects of huge importance in telling the story of our local county regiment. Perhaps strangely, however, my attention was always drawn towards one particular exhibit, which hung on the wall in a stair-well together with an information card that gave it an immaculate provenance. An object which I believe has now languished out of sight in a regimental archive for several decades.

Is there no mechanism amongst our various regimental museums for sharing significant objects when their "owner museum" no longer wants to display them?

Those unaware of this, and the reason I believe that this object would be welcomed and displayed at Brecon, will hopefully become apparent when I reveal that it was Cetshwayo's shield. In terms of the Zulu War of 1879, it's quite possibly the most important Zulu shield that exists.

ForlornHope,

One of many shields attributed to King Cetshwayo, the former Middlesex Regiment Museum at Bruce Castle, also claimed one pilfered by John Dunn. That was lost when the collection was absorbed by the National Army Museum.

The 95th (Derbyshire) Regiment, one of the antecedent regiments of the Sherwood Foresters (Notts. & Derbys.) were obviously represented by Lord Chelmsford, John North Crealock & Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien. To my recollection there were also spears found beside the body of the Prince Imperial on display at Nottingham Castle.

To the victor - the spoils.

As to inter-museum loans I have already encouraged the curator at Brecon to follow such avenues.

JY

John Young wrote:: ForlornHope,

One of many shields attributed to King Cetshwayo, the former Middlesex Regiment Museum at Bruce Castle, also claimed one pilfered by John Dunn. That was lost when the collection was absorbed by the National Army Museum.

The 95th (Derbyshire) Regiment, one of the antecedent regiments of the Sherwood Foresters (Notts. & Derbys.) were obviously represented by Lord Chelmsford, John North Crealock & Horace Lockwood Smith-Dorrien. To my recollection there were also spears found beside the body of the Prince Imperial on display at Nottingham Castle.

To the victor - the spoils.

As to inter-museum loans I have already encouraged the curator at Brecon to follow such avenues.

JY

I presume that the spears are also in storage at Bulwell.

Reagrds,
Mike

Posts : 51 Join date : 2023-04-30

I have to agree with you ForlornHope I used to visit the Castle quite regularly and can remember the shield and the Foresters display was over 2/3 floors. The last time I went was just before lockdown and was really disappointed, have you been to Derby museum lately ? terrible. Regards John

jgregory wrote:: I have to agree with you ForlornHope I used to visit the Castle quite regularly and can remember the shield and the Foresters display was over 2/3 floors. The last time I went was just before lockdown and was really disappointed, have you been to Derby museum lately ? terrible. Regards John

I regret to say that I have not been to Derby museum for several years. Sadly, this seems to reflect comments reported by other military enthusiasts and historians related to several other regimental museums. I think the main problem with the museum of the Foresters is its location in Nottingham Castle. There could be further issues down the line for it too, as the building is owned by the now cash strapped City Council. There have been rumours of it being sold off.

I can't help but think that a lot of these places don't exactly help themselves very much.

Warmest regards,
Mike

Curators are being encouraged to 'de-colonize' (so-called) history - some more enthusiastically than others and new appointees are more active in this respect because they were appointed on that basis (the link to funding is not to be taken lightly either) and their training now includes courses on 'de-colonization'. I know of two museums local to me, the displays of which have been distorted/removed by this approach. This has been really difficult for some regimental museum curators. Nevertheless you will find that some are more sympathetic than others and recognize propaganda, distortion of the truth, and Orwellian disinformation for what they really are. Hands can be tied. I find this being silenced professionally all quite worrying.

Last edited by ForlornHope on Sun Jan 12, 2025 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

Julian Whybra wrote:: Curators are being encouraged to 'de-colonize' (so-called) history - some more enthusiastically than others and new appointees are more active in this respect because they were appointed on that basis (the link to funding is not to be taken lightly either) and their training now includes courses on 'de-colonization'. I know of two museums local to me, the displays of which have been distorted/removed by this approach. This has been really difficult for some regimental museum curators. Nevertheless you will find that some are more sympathetic than others and recognize propaganda, distortion of the truth, and Orwellian disinformation for what they really are. Hands can be tied. I find this being silenced professionally all quite worrying.

Yes, I expect that things will be a bit fraught owing to current trends in the “history business.” This is not likely to improve much without a re-set based around how historic events were being viewed at the time they took place, for those views were the only ones that had any influence on shaping those events. Perhaps the key to that is in highlighting that the 19th century also witnessed the greatest era of reform that this country has ever known? Fortunately, that current crop of academics that are the big players in the distortion of history all display the same fatal flaw. They always begin their narrative half way through the events they are describing. It is nothing new really, there have always been historians who have been driven by a political agenda of one form or another, starting with theories and selectively using only whatever evidence they can find which supports them. Making matters worse, we also have to suffer their acolytes in the main stream media, who are not actually historians at all, merely broadcasters.

Warmest regards,
Mike

Sorry, just duplicated my last post. I don't quite have the hang of this yet!

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