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» Zulu campfires
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» Nevill Coghill's nephew
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» Uniform - Natal Circa 1895?
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» Isandlwana solving the enigma
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» John Wyndon Lyon
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» No. 1488 Color Sergeant A. Spalding
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» Pin pointing an ASC man's war
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» Trooper David Doig, father-in-law Trooper Robert Adams
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» Pte 922 George Edwards (Alias Orchard) and Pte 2744 Charles Moore
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» Frederick Montague 83728 RN HMS Boadicea 1879 (Missing 1914/15 Star and Victory Medal)
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» Updated List of Royal Navy Medals Known to Exist
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» The Mystery of the Missing Mainwaring Material
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» Help Please
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» James Hamer testimony concerning time and distance
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» Barker and the Rocket Battery
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» S.SMITH Buffalo Border Guard
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» Seeking Primary Sources
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» Dead Was Everything: Studies in the Anglo-Zulu War. Keith Smith
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» Pte H Brown 6th Lanc Fus
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» ‘Isandula Mountain, Zululand’
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» Private MJ Flood 57th Foot
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» Richie's new Zulu War model figure project - cast your vote now
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» Natal Witness 'mystery' death notice
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» Sergeant Major Dan Scott
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» 4 'Allens' in the casualty roll listed as having died at Isandlwana.
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The Battle of Isandlwana: From above
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joe
The Aussie
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The Aussie

The Aussie


Posts : 18
Join date : 2011-01-06
Location : Fremantle Australia

They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. Empty
PostSubject: They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em.   They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. EmptySat Jan 08, 2011 7:06 am

I was surprised to read in a Wikipedia article that there were 300 armed native levies present that day when Lt Chard elected to stand and fight at Rorkes Drift.
In the movie, there appears to be only about twenty.
Three hundred more rifles in disciplined fire would have been a huge help.
A few questions.
Did they all run when the Zulus approached?
Did the missionary Witt have anything to do with it as depicted?


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joe

joe


Posts : 600
Join date : 2010-01-07
Location : UK

They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. Empty
PostSubject: Re: They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em.   They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. EmptySat Jan 08, 2011 7:18 am

Hi Aussie,
I beleive that the NNC fled when they saw Hendersons Troopers flee for Helpmekaar after running out of ammunition.

Joe


Last edited by joe on Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


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PostSubject: Re: They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em.   They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. EmptySat Jan 08, 2011 12:25 pm

"On Having already seen the slaughter at Isandlwana, they - and Vause - deserted. Upon seeing their comrades flee, Stephenson's NNC contingent leapt as one over the barricades and followed. Outraged that Stephenson and his European NCOs were following their charges, a few British soldiers fired after them, killing Corporal Bill Anderson."

This from Colour Sgt Bourne's account of action at R.D.

"About 4.15 the sound of firing was heard behind the hill on our front; the Officer returned and reported the enemy close upon us. He also reported that his 100 men would not obey his orders and had ridden off. About the same time another detachment of 100 men belonging to the Natal Native Contingent bolted., including their Officer himself. I am glad to say he was brought back some days later, court-martialled and dismissed from the service. The desertion of these detachments of 200 men appeared at first sight to be a great loss, with only a hundred of us left, but the feeling was that we could not have trusted them, and also that our defences were too small to accomodate them anyhow."


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The Aussie

The Aussie


Posts : 18
Join date : 2011-01-06
Location : Fremantle Australia

They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. Empty
PostSubject: Re: They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em.   They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. EmptySat Jan 08, 2011 12:54 pm

And what of Missionary Witt? Was he really sent off his post?
Did he actually have a daughter present?
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Chard1879

Chard1879


Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

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PostSubject: Re: They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em.   They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. EmptySat Jan 08, 2011 2:49 pm

Hi Aussie. Witt, Chaplin Smith & Reynolds Had climbed up to the top of Shiyane Hill to try an observe what could be seen of Isandlwana.
While they were up there, the alarm was raised "here they come, black as hell an as thick as grass" It was at this point the Rev Witt rapidly made his way down the hill jumped on a horse and rode of to Helpmarker.

Interestly. Witt was another who claimed to have been at the Battle of Isandlwana and Rorkes Drift. See link below

http://1879zuluwar.forumotion.com/t1895-our-good-friend-mr-witt-i-was-there-but-not-really?highlight=Witt

He its by all means a very interesting Character.
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The Aussie

The Aussie


Posts : 18
Join date : 2011-01-06
Location : Fremantle Australia

They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. Empty
PostSubject: Re: They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em.   They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. EmptyMon Jan 24, 2011 9:37 pm

I had a look at Helpmekaar on Google Earth and was surprised to find that there isn't a town there even today.
What was at Helpmekaar in 1879 to flee to?
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Brett Hendey

Brett Hendey


Posts : 264
Join date : 2010-12-02
Location : Kloof, KZN

They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. Empty
PostSubject: Re: They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em.   They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. EmptyTue Jan 25, 2011 5:36 am

A chapter by Sheila Henderson in the book 'The Zulu War and the Colony of Natal' includes the following statement:

There was no hamlet at Helpmekaar - just two isolated stone houses and about a mile away a small chapel, erected in 1874 by the Vermaaks.

There was a dramatic change early in 1879 and Henderson wrote as follows:

Tiny Helpmekaar was the focus of military activity in the New Year of 1879. Great serpents of wagon trains toiled up the heights through the mud from Umsinga Valley. Three enormous zinc sheds were filled with reserve stocks of ammunition, biscuits, grain and forage; white and green tents dotted the heights and spilled down over the steep slopes towards Rorke's Drift.

Later the army abandoned Helpmekaar when the second invasion was launched east of Dundee.

Regards
Brett
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The Aussie

The Aussie


Posts : 18
Join date : 2011-01-06
Location : Fremantle Australia

They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. Empty
PostSubject: Re: They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em.   They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. EmptyTue Jan 25, 2011 6:08 am

Oh good one Brett. That explains it. I noted that virtually everyone on the forum eluded to people fleeing to Helpmekaar when they needed too and there didn't even seem like there was a town there then let alone today..
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8219
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. Empty
PostSubject: Re: They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em.   They've 'ooked it Sir, all of 'em. EmptyTue Jan 25, 2011 6:11 am

Sir Stanley Baker did a brilliant PR job in getting people interested in the AZ Wars, he has however perpetrated a lot of myths, probably more than TWOTS.
Hook is a glaring example.
The Rev left RD as soon as the truth of the situation became known. I believe his family was on a farm not to distant from RD, it was there that he fled to.

Regards
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