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» (Lieut: R. F. Westmacott. 77th. Foot.)
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 Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?

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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2265
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 65
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptyWed Dec 18, 2013 1:14 am

Impi,

Impi wrote:
Because they both took part in the Zulu War. One didn't make it beyond Ulundi!

What part of the Anglo-Zulu War did Major Waller Ashe take part in?  As to my knowledge it was none.

Waller Ashe was commissioned as an officer in 85th Regiment prior to exchanging to the 1st King's Dragoon Guards in 1860 with the rank of Captain, this would be the highest regular rank he attained.

In 1876 he was appointed to a volunteer majority in 1st Administrative Battalion of the Perthshire Rifle Volunteers.  He resigned from that rank on 28th March, 1877, after his bankruptcy hearing - one of many - the previous year whilst employed as a Deputy-Governor of Her Majesty's General Prison for Scotland, at Perth.  Not bad when you consider he had served time as a guest of Her Majesty in a Debtors' Prison at Whitecross Street, London.

John Y.
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90th

90th

Posts : 10319
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Age : 65
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Lt Col Pulleine    Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptyWed Dec 18, 2013 1:47 am

Impi they both didnt take part in the war from , Ashe was a friend of Wyatt - Edgell , he sent Ashe his letters , Wyatt - Edgell didnt arrive in Zululand until his Regt the 17th Lcrs did so. Ashe states in the Preface of ' The Story Of The Zulu Campaign '
that he had many offers from old comrades who were about to go to the war to send him letters , sketches and journals etc etc
from which he wouldnt be attending , and he states he could only watch the campaign through their eyes as he was tied to his London Chambers ( Lawyer ?? ) , he states he may envy but cant participate . He decided on using Wyatt - Edgell's correspondance . Ashe describes Wyatt - Edgell a most accomplished Gentleman and Gallant soldier , young , brave and cheery and debonnaire .
90th .


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90th

90th

Posts : 10319
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Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Lt Col - Pulleine responsible for the loss of Isandlwana    Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptyWed Dec 18, 2013 1:51 am

Hi JY.
It seems our messages crossed as I was called away from the computer for a while before I pressed the send button  Salute 
Will 3 nil become 4 or possibly 5 ????  agree 
Cheers 90th.
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impi

impi

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PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptyWed Dec 18, 2013 9:59 pm

"Extract from "Records of the Ashe Family" by Waller Ashe (1876)
Captain Waller Ashe, 85th Light Infantry and Kings Dragoon Guards, of Ashgrove, born 21 January 1835, "Entered the army as Ensign in the 85th Kings Dragoon Guards in 1871 ; and became Capt. in 1880 ; served in the Zulu war of 1879, and in the Egyptian war of 1882 (two medals and star)"
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2265
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Age : 65
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptyWed Dec 18, 2013 10:33 pm

Impi,

I think you might have confused things there, take a look at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Plenty there about his military appointments and his debt, but I don't see "...served in the Zulu war of 1879, and in the Egyptian war of 1882 (two medals and star)"

Can you post the web link please?

Thanks,

John Y.
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90th

90th

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Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Lt Col - Pulleine responsible for the loss of Isandlwana    Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptyThu Dec 19, 2013 12:34 am

Impi , Ashe himself states HE WASNT taking part in the zulu war in the preface of his book ! . Ashe states in his
preface and I quote '' I passed some very happy years among Boers , Bok , and Kaffirs , had at the commencement of the
late war ( 1879 my bracket ) prompted me to follow its various phases , with a view to write the story of the campaign ''.
As I posted yesterday Ashe said he wouldnt be at the war , did you read that post ? . He was no doubt in Sth Africa but before 1879 . He states he served in Sth Africa as an Adjutant so he was there before 1879 , he isnt on the Forsyth Medal Roll which covers the years 77-78-79.
90th
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littlehand

littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 10:53 pm

After a lot of research, and shifting though hundreds of web-links I have pinned the lost of the camp at Isandlwana down to one man. 
The clue is, he was in command.  I"m confident no one can dispute my finding.  
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 11:50 pm

littlehand wrote:
After a lot of research, and shifting though hundreds of web-links I have pinned the lost of the camp at Isandlwana down to one man. 
The clue is, he was in command.  I"m confident no one can dispute my finding.  

Bonsoir Littlehand,

What are your arguments for this affirmation?
Do you have only one argument ("he was in command") or others?
Cheers

Frédéric


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Ray63

Ray63

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PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptySat Jul 25, 2015 1:17 am

I bet he will say Pulleine... agree
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24th

24th

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Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptySat Jul 25, 2015 1:23 am

Ray it can only be one of two. So I'll go Durnford. Between us one of us will be right.
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sas1

sas1

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PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptySat Jul 25, 2015 1:29 am

It's impossible to pin it down to one man, and I'm sure if these sources were out there, they would have been picked up long ago. But reading LH's historic posts, I'll go with him saying Col Durnford.  agree
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littlehand

littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptySat Jul 25, 2015 1:40 am

Let's put him as the Overall commander! Senior rank I guess.
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John

John

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PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptySat Jul 25, 2015 1:55 am

LH don't say LC No
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littlehand

littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptySat Jul 25, 2015 2:39 pm

No John its not Lord Chelmsford.

It's "Ntshingwayo kaMahole Khoza"
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana?   Lt Col Pulleine - responsible for the loss of iSandlwana? - Page 7 EmptySat Jul 25, 2015 4:18 pm

Your right no one can argue with that. Very Happy
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