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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw


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PostSubject: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyWed Mar 23, 2011 10:14 pm

Here is a few images I took 8th March on Hlobane, in particular some stunning .450/577 Boxer cases from near A troops position on Bullers ascent.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Mossops leap[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

the wall across the summit which held up the retreat[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



Before you all ask, the cases remain well hidden exactly from where they were fired 132 years ago
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Hlobane Images    Hlobane images EmptyThu Mar 24, 2011 5:17 am

Hi Neil .
Very impressive Neil , extraordinary photos with much history behind them , wonderful find . Sorry MrGreaves my '' Great Snaps ''
line was merely posted in a hurry and certainly didnt give the photos the credit they surely deserve / desreved .
cheers 90th. Idea


Last edited by 90th on Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mr Greaves

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyThu Mar 24, 2011 11:08 am

Great snaps!!!
90th Those rounds were fired by a trooper from the exact place they were found 132 years ago during the retreat down the mountain. At that spot he took up position fired and hopefully move on down. And then on the 8th of March 2011 they were discovered by Neil and his mates. Who most respectfully left them there and whose knows maybe in another 132 years they might be discovered again. I bet there was some excitement when they were found and no doubt the topic of conversation in the bar that night. Touch History my friends you can’t be it. Neil thanks for sharing these excellent photos. I bet that made your day when you found those.

Neil just out of interest. In the photo you have the cases sat on a rock, would that be the same rock the trooper would have took up his position to fire.

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Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyThu Mar 24, 2011 12:29 pm

The cases were actually found where A troop were defending the slope which the abuqulisi ascended. they had been fired from a group of rocks which affected superb enfilade protection from incoming fire.
Sadly most of the boulders/sangars that were there in 2005 have now been used to infil the huge (nearly 1m wide) fssures on the summit so many of the defensive points are gone and it was difficult to orientate where they were then.

I chose a point that the boulders could not be moved, and I would have dropped behind, and there they were. Rob Caskie who accompanied us had pointed out this spot with David Rattray and has produced several finds of this type. I can assure everyone they are now even better hidden and testimony to the individual who fired them.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyThu Mar 24, 2011 7:37 pm

Thanks Neil. Mossop leap. How long would it take for someone to walk from the summit to the bottom, using the route Mossop used.
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J.J.Meyer




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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 am

Awesome pics Neil.
Hlobane mountain has some stunning scenery.

Did you visit the graves of Captain Campbell and Mr Lloyd? I passed there a few months ago and the grave site was quite badly vandalized.

On my next visit I would like to find the caves where Campbell was shot; I played on this mountain when I was a kid and never saw any caves.
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Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 8:25 am

Littehand about ten seconds.....its a near sheer drop about 150 feet, gradually levelling out, you can't get down without precaution..rope!.

JJM

The concrete cap to campell and Lloyds grave has been smashed yet again, the vegetation around the "cave"..boulder area is dense, perhaps late winter would be best, I must sat the fissures are now enormous, despite the mine companies attempts to fill them in.

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johann engelbrecht




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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 5:59 pm

In a previous post on this topic, in particular the wall across the mountain, it was argued that this wall was only erected post 1879, which I whole heartedly support. Ken Gillings please clear us up on this!? Mossops leap, I always thought was near the Devil's Pass. This photo shows a shear cliff on the north facing side of Hlobane mountain about 1,5 km away from Devil's Pass! No way that Buller could have sent Chops Mossop back up that way!
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old historian2

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 7:18 pm

In the photo above Mossop's leap. Which point on the photo was it he desended, Was it over the edge where the valley runs away or was it down into the valley from the little hill with the boulders are on the righthand side. Hope this make sense.
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mel1879




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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySat Mar 26, 2011 10:30 am

Hi all. This is my first post.

Johann,
In March 1879 the Times of Natal correspondent noted that the "Qulusi are busily engaged building extensive stone walls and otherwise strengthening this formidable mountain" Page 252 "The Boiling Cauldron" by Huw M Jones.

Neil
Not sure that your photo shows Mossops Leap. The location you show is far too steep and sited well to the right of the Pass.
What was the condition of the miners road like?


Mel

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Dave

Dave


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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySat Mar 26, 2011 11:03 am

http://1879zuluwar.forumotion.com/t1321-hlobane-mountain?highlight=Mossop
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Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySat Mar 26, 2011 12:08 pm

Mel
the road is extremely bad, in particular the first mile or so as it goes up.

The drop is about 100 yards from the pass itself, to its right as you look down, there is no doubt Mossop was sent up to collect his horse, but his description of the drop IMO does not describe the pass itself, I still believe that erosion has taken off the topsoil, and hence the slope has become more onerous over time.

Lets face it, if this was a route that the Abuqulisi took up thier cattle, hardly the most nimble of beasts, then in could not have been so bad in 1879 as now, as its near impossible for a four legged creature to ascend, but, and heres the but, here is the image I took from the opposite end of Hlobane, the area defended by A troop, the slope here is nowhere as bad, Mossop described the drop and the trees at the bottom.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

the view overlooking the place the BBG were engaged and the point Weatherley got to[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

defensive sangar?, overlooking the ascent
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The cartridge case moments after finding it[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


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tasker224

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySat Mar 26, 2011 1:54 pm

Moving images Neil - many thanks for sharing those - I would love to go one day.

You seem positive that the cartridges were fired by a trooper. Would this have been one of Dartnell's mounted volunteers on the afternoon of tuesday 21st?
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Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySat Mar 26, 2011 2:28 pm

Def, the firer was shooting down to the ascending Zulu's, he fired four + shots, from his firing position it could only have been to his right front, FWOW I believe he was left handed too, judging where he crouched and where the cases ended up.

Believe me I have fired more MH shots that you care to imagine, whilst I do not tend to do conjecture, a Swinburn is a poor animal when it comes to ejecting, and you tend to "tip" out the brass, rather than the more pronounced ejecting throw of a MH. This boy must have done this as his cases would have just ended up on the floor as a rightie, not stuck where we found them.

Oh by the way, for the purist he was shooting ordnance rifle rounds,(two cannelures) the baseplate images I took clearly show the firing pin imprint and broad arrow on primer rivet (ten o'clock outer primer pocket), anyone like to see it?[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Last edited by Neil Aspinshaw on Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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impi

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySat Mar 26, 2011 3:47 pm

Were the British soldiers force to take the route did, because of the Zulu's attacking or was it taken in confusion or was it the only way down from their position.
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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySat Mar 26, 2011 6:32 pm

Nice find Neil. That would be the icing on the cake.. Idea
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySat Mar 26, 2011 9:27 pm

Officers at Hlobane Zulu War photo. Not sure if this has already been posted.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySat Mar 26, 2011 9:31 pm

Jamie's website
http://www.isandlwana1879.co.uk/index_files/Page11141.htm
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24th

24th


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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySat Mar 26, 2011 9:44 pm

Keep forgetting about Jamie’s site.

Looking at photo 3, its looks like Devils pass was the safest route to take. The red arrows seem to be heading for a shear drop. Being realistic the last photo does show what seems to be the only way down with a chance of survival.
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90th

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PostSubject: Hlobane Images    Hlobane images EmptySun Mar 27, 2011 7:19 am

Hi Littlehand.
Not sure the photo you posted is from Hlobane . In ' Zulu War - Volunteers , Irregulars & Auxiliaries by Ian Castle .
The caption beneath the photo is as follows ... '' A group photograph identified as Cdt Raff and officers of his Transvaal
Rangers . The Officer ( seated , right ) with White Spiked Helmet and civilian clothes is Raaff. Whether the others are all members of the Rangers is hard to say . Where Tunic details are visible on the four standing men and the man on
the ground ( Left ) , no two tunics are the same . It is tempting , considering the description available , to ponder whether the man standing on the left is a Kaffrarian Rifleman - Both Units served under Evelyn Wood at Hlobane and
Khambula '' . ( S. Bourquin )
cheers 90th .
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Chard1879

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptySun Mar 27, 2011 10:34 pm

Hi Neil great photo's. Were you looking for ammo cases when you found these or were they just spotted by accident.
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Neil Aspinshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyMon Mar 28, 2011 8:19 am

Chard
Not particularily, Rob Caskie who took us pointed out the areas that these had been found in numbers when he visited with David Rattray , and to be fair it was very locigal where they would be,
In this discussion thread the wall has been mentioned, I had discussed its provenance to the AZW this with Rob, and again he pointed out points on the summit, and the also along the wall where large numbers of cases had been located in the past, but this doesn't say categorical that it existed in the form it does today in 1879.
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Ken Gillings




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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyMon Mar 28, 2011 10:48 pm

Just to clarify a couple of points:
1. The wall across the summit of Hlabane is definitely post 1879. It controls grazing on the summit and was erected in the early 1900s (I think the 1920s). I'll try to find my notes with the precise date. The only walls in existence at the time were those above Campbell's & Lloyd's grave (where the abaQulusi kept their cattle & goats from straying) and across the top of the Devil's Pass (also to prevent the abaQulusi cattle from wandering off the summit of Hlobane onto the lower plateau (more correctly Tendeka).
2. Mossop's leap is on the opposite side of the image shown. If I'm not mistaken, the photo was taken at the end of the track, where one then needs to walk slightly left (south-west) to reach the Devil's Pass. 'Chops' Mossop jumped further to the south of the Devil's Pass. I'll send Admin a photo.
Regards, Ken
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PostSubject: Campbell's Cave   Hlobane images EmptyTue Mar 29, 2011 6:30 am

Neil Aspinshaw wrote:

JJM

The concrete cap to campell and Lloyds grave has been smashed yet again, the vegetation around the "cave"..boulder area is dense, perhaps late winter would be best, I must sat the fissures are now enormous, despite the mine companies attempts to fill them in.


Thanks Neil. I am very interested in finding Campbell's "cave"; as posted earlier, I played on this mountain with my friends in about 1976 ~ 1980 and never found or heard any mention of caves. Neither had my father or uncles who also grew up at Hlobane in the 1940's.

The following from Wood's Despatch from Kambula on 30 March 1879:
"I directed Colonel Weatherley to dislodge one or two Zulus, who were causing us most of the loss, but as his men did not advance rapidly, Captain Campbell and Lieutenant Lysons, and three men of the 90th, jumping over a low wall, ran forward, and charged into a cave, when Captain Campbell, leading in a most determined and gallant manner, was shot dead....Killed one Zulu and dislodged another, who crawled away by a subterranean passage, re-appearing higher up the mountain"

Would the wall in question be this one, posted in an earlier discussion?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I have no doubt that the "subterranean passage" has long since succumbed to the mining operations (I felt many blast induced earthquakes in the area when I was a kid), but it is quite possible that the cave opening might still be there.

The dense vegetation in this area appears to be indigenous and very well established, almost in-penetrable and still looks exactly the same as in the early 1940's, I can not imagine that this particular area of bush has changed much since 1879. Yet, there is no mention of this by Wood. Certainly Wood's advance would only be visible by the two Zulus from a vantage point above the dense vegetation directly beneath the summit.
Looking at the picture, Wood's account does not make much sense to me, or am I way off in my thinking here?

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Ken Gillings




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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyTue Mar 29, 2011 6:58 am

Good morning. That is a photo that I posted several months (years?!) ago and shows the scene of the action in which Campbell was killed. It is very difficult to find or to access - usually only after a veld fire (as you can see).
Regards, Ken
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Ken Gillings




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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyTue Mar 29, 2011 7:04 am

By the way, as has been mentioned Campbell's & Lloyd's grave has been very badly vandalised again despite Amafa/Heritage having restored it about 9 months ago. I took a party there in February and reported back to Amafa who have indicated that it is now pointless wasting more money on re-restoration. In any case, it has been plundered so often over the past 40 years that I doubt if there are any more mortal remains. It now simply shows the monument lying flat on the ground
Regards, Ken
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johann engelbrecht




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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyTue Mar 29, 2011 5:32 pm

Thank you Ken for filling us in on the wall and the photo of Mossop's leap!
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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyWed Mar 30, 2011 7:12 pm

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Scene of Mossop's leap, Hlobane

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Mossop's leap, Hlobane
Photo's By Ken Gillings.

Did Mossop ever return to this site after the War.
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Ken Gillings




Posts : 205
Join date : 2009-10-20
Age : 74
Location : Pinetown, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyFri Apr 01, 2011 7:44 am

In response to the query: "Did Mossop return the the site?", he actually settled below Hlobane and members of his family lived there until a couple of decades ago.
Regards, Ken
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sas1

sas1


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Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 43

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyTue Apr 05, 2011 9:39 pm

Quote :
Campbell, his aide-de-camp, 2nd Lt. Henry Lysons, and four mounted infantrymen of the 90th charged into a cave. As they entered, Campbell was fatally shot in the head. Lysons and Private Edmund J. Fowler, following close on the captain's footsteps, shot and killed one sniper; the other escaped through a subterranean passageway."

Is there a photo of the cave where young Campbell was killed.
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ciroferrara

ciroferrara


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Age : 30
Location : exeter

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyTue Apr 05, 2011 10:35 pm

the cave was discovered by the authors lock and quantrill but had collapsed due to the mining operations in the area .. there is a picture of whre the cave used to be in lock and quatrills "zulu vanquished"

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Ken Gillings




Posts : 205
Join date : 2009-10-20
Age : 74
Location : Pinetown, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyWed Apr 06, 2011 8:49 am

The 'caves' are more in the form of recesses, but unless there has been an intensive veld fire, it is extremely difficult to reach them. The area is more easily visible from above - ie, the south-eastern summit of Hlobane and I'll e-mail Admin some photos of the site.
Regards, Ken
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ADMIN

ADMIN


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Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 63
Location : KENT

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyWed Apr 06, 2011 9:51 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Some photos of the area where Capt Ronald Campbell was killed, taken from above (as per my post this morning).
Photo's and Text Ken Gillings.
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littlehand

littlehand


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Age : 53
Location : Down South.

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyWed Apr 13, 2011 10:26 pm

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Dave

Dave


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Join date : 2009-09-21

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyWed Aug 03, 2011 8:48 pm

The so called caves, at Hlobane were not cave's as such. Or as I thought them to be.

"The Mountain like many other eminences in Zululand, is tabled topped, and from its precipitous sides irregular masses of rock have fallen, which lie piled in confusion about the base of the cliff's The holes which exist among these masses of rock are the so-called "caves" used by the Zulu's as hiding places
."
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ADMIN

ADMIN


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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyWed Aug 03, 2011 10:32 pm

Dave, Was this from
"Narrative of the Field Operations Connected with the Zulu War"
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Dave

Dave


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Join date : 2009-09-21

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PostSubject: Re: Hlobane images   Hlobane images EmptyThu Aug 04, 2011 10:29 am

Quote :
"Narrative of the Field Operations Connected with the Zulu War"

It was. Idea
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