WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Zulu Film Quote Lieutenant Bromhead :If 1200 men couldn't hold a defensive position this morning, what chance have we with 100?
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Sir George Pomeroy Colley
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyToday at 6:26 am by gardner1879

» Ingvald N NIlson
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyToday at 5:40 am by gardner1879

» New Cabinet card
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyYesterday at 7:59 pm by ciroferrara

» Tthe mystery of JWJ Davies
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyYesterday at 4:07 pm by Julian Whybra

» Bechuanaland police
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyThu Jun 23, 2022 3:18 pm by ciroferrara

» 17th Lancers
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyThu Jun 23, 2022 3:07 pm by gardner1879

» Commissary E. W. H. Webb, C.B.
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyWed Jun 22, 2022 4:02 pm by Julian Whybra

» Captain Robert Francis Vetch
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyWed Jun 22, 2022 1:03 pm by Frank Allewell

» The difference between a Drummer and a Boy in the Band.
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyTue Jun 21, 2022 4:07 am by magolding

» Zulu Boys Recollection of the Zulu War
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyTue Jun 21, 2022 3:40 am by magolding

» Remembering the Rebellion - The Zulu Uprising of 1906 Jeff Guy
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyMon Jun 20, 2022 10:09 pm by Ian Chard

» Sergeant Arthur Horatio Still, 12th Lancers
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptySat Jun 18, 2022 7:29 pm by Julian Whybra

» Corporal James Lawler 1/24th
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptySat Jun 18, 2022 12:42 pm by gardner1879

» Quartermaster Michael James Kenny Connaught Rangers
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptySat Jun 18, 2022 12:39 pm by gardner1879

» Captain Ulick De Burgh
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptySat Jun 18, 2022 8:55 am by gardner1879

» I am a happy boy!
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptySat Jun 18, 2022 5:17 am by nitro450

» Patrick Murray, 313, 88th of Foot
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyFri Jun 17, 2022 5:22 pm by gardner1879

» Zulu Dawn on DVD - better than Blu-Ray?
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyFri Jun 17, 2022 3:29 pm by TimmyH

» Lieutenant Richard Hawes MacCarthy, 2nd/4th Regiment
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyFri Jun 17, 2022 2:59 pm by Julian Whybra

» Howard Molyneux Edward Brunker
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyThu Jun 16, 2022 11:05 am by gardner1879

» Location of Special Service Officers 1878/9
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyWed Jun 15, 2022 12:34 pm by gardner1879

» Cdvs and cabinet card photos wanted
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyTue Jun 14, 2022 2:19 pm by ciroferrara

» Other ranks patrol jacket
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyMon Jun 13, 2022 12:23 pm by John Young

» A Staffordshire Regiment in the Zulu and Zekukuni Campaigns
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptySun Jun 12, 2022 5:12 pm by gardner1879

» Good website or seller for zulu war era Carte De Visites
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptySat Jun 11, 2022 2:27 pm by ciroferrara

» In search of more service papers
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyFri Jun 10, 2022 11:10 pm by charltontom7@gmail.com

» Isandlwana solving the enigma
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyFri Jun 10, 2022 1:41 pm by Julian Whybra

» Brave mens blood. Frontier Light Horse picture
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyThu Jun 09, 2022 8:54 pm by ciroferrara

» Picture Quiz
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptySat Jun 04, 2022 2:56 pm by Julian Whybra

» Platinum Jubilee
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyFri Jun 03, 2022 10:25 pm by Julian Whybra

» Trooper G Hennessey (301) Frontier Light Horse
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyThu Jun 02, 2022 2:43 pm by 90th

» Captain Robert Julian Orde Jocelyn 8th Reg
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyMon May 30, 2022 6:48 am by gardner1879

» Best book on colonial soldiers during zulu war
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptySun May 29, 2022 12:14 am by ciroferrara

» Sergeant E Wilson
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyWed May 25, 2022 9:30 am by gardner1879

» 1940 Review of 'Lord Chelmsford and the Zulu War'
Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyTue May 24, 2022 12:53 pm by gardner1879

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
The Death of the Prince Imperial Zulu War 1879
Top posters
90th
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
littlehand
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
ADMIN
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
1879graves
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
rusteze
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
John
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
gardner1879
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
John Young
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
ciroferrara
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Vaughan
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Ian Chard
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
90th
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Bill8183
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Tim Needham
Class based war or Imperial defence Bar_leftClass based war or Imperial defence BarClass based war or Imperial defence Bar_right 
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
The ammunition question
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
john henry james Prince payne carbineers Franklin George martini smith Isandlwana william harford Police zulu Natal 24th Mounted Russell spalding drift Durnford horse taylor Woolfryes brown
 

 Class based war or Imperial defence

Go down 
+2
90th
Eric
6 posters
AuthorMessage
Eric




Posts : 116
Join date : 2011-06-17

Class based war or Imperial defence Empty
PostSubject: Class based war or Imperial defence   Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyWed Jun 22, 2011 6:31 am

Well guys I ran into Jeff Guy the other day at UKZN and had a bit of a chat. I knew his daughter when we were students together back in the early 1990.s Did a bit of catching up. We talked about the AZW. Told me that he thought the problem with the military historians was that they ignored the full picture in discussing the AZW. For him the AZW was a classical war of imperialism in that it was fought with the express intention of forcing the Zulu nation into the capitalist system. Spoke a lot about a book he liked called Ploughshare of War by an academic called Cope. Cope is of teh Jeff Guy school. Frere and Carvnarvon and the colonists needed labor if they were to develop a capitalist modern economy in Natal. The Zulus were a pre capitalist society and were quite well off. They did not see the point of rushing to work on white farms and factories in Natal. SO that is why the war was fought. Forcibly integrate Zululand and then use the huat tax system or teh later poll atx to force the Zulus to work for the whites. There are other authors Jeff pointed out who feel that the AZW was staretd becuause of global security concnerns about the advance of Russian imperialism. He does not hold much store by these accounts. What do the members here think.
Regards
Eric
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10482
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 66
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Class based war or Imperial defence Empty
PostSubject: Class based war or imperial defence   Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyWed Jun 22, 2011 6:53 am

Hi Eric.
I dont think there is much doubt the British wanted zululand for the express purpose of attempting to bring the zulu into line with
the other black tribes , therefore hoping the policy of confederation would be a strong and viable solution to as they saw it , the
waste of manpower ( Black ) . Cheap labour force needed in the Kimberley etc etc . To me , that is how I read the situation .
cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
Mr Greaves

Mr Greaves


Posts : 747
Join date : 2009-10-18

Class based war or Imperial defence Empty
PostSubject: Re: Class based war or Imperial defence   Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyWed Jun 22, 2011 4:57 pm

Eric. Don't know if you have this book " In ZuluLand With The British Army" Charles Norris-Newman.

Bit Newman gives a very good overview as to the cause of the Zulu War.
Back to top Go down
Eric




Posts : 116
Join date : 2011-06-17

Class based war or Imperial defence Empty
PostSubject: Re: Class based war or Imperial defence   Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyWed Jun 22, 2011 10:52 pm

I have not read Norris Newman's book on the AZW. jeff Guy lent me a copy of Cope's Book Ploughshare of War. Said to me with a wink that Cope was a good Marxist historian and I could not go wrong with him. Will try and read up what Norris Newman said.
Back to top Go down
old historian2

old historian2


Posts : 1095
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : East London

Class based war or Imperial defence Empty
PostSubject: Re: Class based war or Imperial defence   Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyThu Jun 23, 2011 8:34 am

I haven't read the Newman book either, but surly it's better to have the situation explained by someone who was there, at the times of the troubles in-question.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8231
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Class based war or Imperial defence Empty
PostSubject: Re: Class based war or Imperial defence   Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyThu Jun 23, 2011 9:01 am

Probably the most evocative accounts are thoase from Newman and Bertram Midford. Newman because he had immediate access to the battlefields and the participants and Midford because he was there while it was all still fresh in the minds of the locals. The musings of when he had walked the trail and saw a skull laying along side the river, really descriptive stuff..

Regards
Back to top Go down
Mr Greaves

Mr Greaves


Posts : 747
Join date : 2009-10-18

Class based war or Imperial defence Empty
PostSubject: Re: Class based war or Imperial defence   Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyThu Jun 23, 2011 12:38 pm

It’s good that we can get two sides of the story. One from a military perspective, and one from a Civilian.


I love this.
Newmancommenting on Chelmsford's decision to divide his forces]

"Norris-Newman: Crealock, old fella. I'm doing notes for my dispatch and I need to clear up a few military points... I don't want to bother His Lordship. Had it drummed into my thick skull that a good commander never willingly splits his force, especially in an enemy's country, before knowing their dispositions.
Col. Crealock: Ah yes, if we were facing a European enemy armed with guns I think your point would hold, Noggs. Further may I remind you, I do not make the strategies you wish to comment on. I am only His Lordship's secretary.
Norris-Newman: I wouldn't take overly comfort from that, Crealock old fella, because if he sinks, then you sink with him."
Back to top Go down
ciscokid




Posts : 187
Join date : 2010-02-04

Class based war or Imperial defence Empty
PostSubject: Re: Class based war or Imperial defence   Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyThu Jun 23, 2011 10:24 pm

old historian2 wrote:
I haven't read the Newman book either, but surly it's better to have the situation explained by someone who was there, at the times of the troubles in-question.

Old - get yourself a copy mate, it's mint. Amazon do it for a tenner.
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10482
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 66
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Class based war or Imperial defence Empty
PostSubject: Class based war or imperial defence   Class based war or Imperial defence EmptyFri Jun 24, 2011 2:48 am

Mr.Greaves.
I'm with you , I think its some of the best dialogue in the movie ! . I love it as well . :lol!:
cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
 
Class based war or Imperial defence
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Hexwarrior 2D turn-based Hex&Chit Freebie,Rorkes Drift & 2 others
» US Based Reenactment Group
» Hexwarrior 2D turn-based Hex&Chit Freebie,Rorkes Drift & 2 others
» A Proposition based on Studies in the Zulu War Vol V
» Alcohol or Paraffin

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: