Isandlwana, Last Stands

Hi all

In all cases the last stands were not formed in a square, because it had too few soldiers for this and no time for that ...

and for the cattle in battle : " The uMbonambi had brought forward a herd of cattle,and had driven it past Durnford's left ,a party of warriors sheltering among the animals . Many of them had been killed ,but the integrity of the British line
had been breached."

Isandhlwana 1879 the great Zulu victory By IK , page 71.



Pascal

90th wrote:

Hi Dave.
I remember reading that the fatigue / work party repairing the road was indeed repairing the road in front of Isandlwana
for the advance , I'm fairly certain they werent repairing the road back to the drift , I think the pioneers may also been in this party or indeed they were the party doing the repairs .
cheers 90th.

It was Lt Anstey with 40 men. The were called in early in the morning.

Hi DB.
I may be wrong but I'm sure it's been posted that Anstey was repairing the road to R.D !! . But , I like you think he was out in front of Isandlwana preparing the road there for the advance from Isandlwana . Do you remember someone posting that info ??.
cheers 90th.

Hi Pascal .
I think everyone realises there were ' No Last Squares ' it was a case of forming up shoulder to shoulder and attempting to keep themselves together . As you said , there wasnt enough Soldiers to actually form square .
cheers 90th.

HI Gary

Yeah Gary, it's incredible mass of things that you can understand when you want to rebuild with figurines ...



Pascal

From Brickhill's statement.

"Panic was everywhere and no officer to guide, no shelter to fall back to. The only attempt at a stand that I know of, was made by the few that followed the Quartermaster and the Basutos, who had a narrow escape of being cut off at the crest, but who came through past the General's tent shouting to each other and keeping up their fire from a few rocks under Isandhlwana."

This woud have been after the firing lines were forced to fall back.

The 24th weren't back at the camp by that point. They were fighting in front of the 2/24th tents.

What difference does that make, Brickhill stills says "panic was everywhere" the point of this discussion is to accertain "Last Stands" My point being there was no orderly fall back, at least from what Brickhill witness.

There was no work party behind (ie to the west) of Isandhlwana. There is not one piece of evidence that such a thing ever happened. I think it stemmed from one popular historian's misreading of Anstey's work party from F coy on the donga in front of the mountain (ie to the east). Another fiction I'm afraid.
As for Dyson's section, this story arose from one popular historian claiming he was told by Chadwick years before that he'd seen bones and bits of uniform at that point on the ridge. There is no record of a cairn/burial there. Chadwick left no written reference to this. There is no evidence, Zulu or British, that there was a fight there or that they were left behind. Instead we have Essex recording that he rode over to ensure the line was withdrawn at Cavaye's behest (Dyson's superior who would have been concerned for the safe withdrawal of his subaltern and section) and that the withdrawal was carried out successfully. I believe Essex says somewhere that he was the last man down as he was having trouble with his horse (I don't have time to look this up - apologies - so I'm willing to be corrected on this). Personally, I think the popular historian misunderstood (he was told this years before, at a time when he was not a popular historian).

LH
Yes but where on the battlefield was Brickhill when he witnessed this? Near the south of the camp where QM Pullen was organising a 'stand' of 20 men and nowhere near where the stands at the back of the camp would have been clearly visible.

He does say, he didn't get a good view of the firing lines, but I'm only posting what he claimes he saw. He left his location as the red coats came into the camp. Brickhill talks about what he saw as an indivual and in his own words we're "panic was everywhere"

LH
Absolutely, I'm sure panic was everywhere around him given his location right in the path of the stampede towards the saddle.

Here, Bickhill gives a good account of what you mention.

"The Isandlwana horn edged away more and more to the left and these two kept up a constant cross fire on us. Our flight I shall never forget: no path, no track and boulders everywhere. On were we borne; now into some dry torrent bed; now wending our way amongst some trees of stunted growth so that unless you made the best use of your eyes you were in constant danger of colliding with trees or finding yourself unhorsed at the bottom of the ravine. Our way was strewn with shields, assegais blankets, hats, clothing of all descriptions, guns ammunition belts and saddles which horses had managed to kick off, revolvers and belts, and I know not what else. Our stampede was composed of mules with and without pack saddles, oxen and horses in all sorts of equipment, and fleeing men all strangely intermingled; man and beast all apparently impressed with the danger which surrounded us."

In the account made by Captain Essex;

"The right of the 24th was turned, and the men became unsteady.  A few fixed bayonets, and I heard the officers calling on their men to keep together and be steady.  It was, however, no use (i.e. to hold the Zulus back). In a few seconds the field was a rabble and the Zulus were among us.  We were driven up through the camp"

I think this gives some weight to what I said earlier with regards to commard breaking down. Along with the fact Brickhill saw no officers with the men running through the camp.

LH
Consider precisely where Essex was when he witnessed this and later recalled events.
Recall the order of the line from west to east - Wardell - Dyer - NNC - Pope - IMI/colonials/NNH
The Zulus made a forward movement; the guns changed from shrapnel to case.
Essex rode over to Durnford with the NNC on the right front to point out the danger to the far right from the Zulu left horn.
Durnford asked him to gather some men and check the Zulu advance.
At this point Erskine saw Pakade's men flee.
The cease fire and retire was sounded by the 24th.
Lonsdale's coy retreated and fell back on the camp "which we did...The coy of soldiers was with us [Dyer?] and on nearing the tents knelt down and commendced firing at the enemy. Below them, some distance to the west, was another coy or more of soldiers [Pope?], also kneeling down and firing." (Malindi)
Erskine witnessed "the whole column to the right of the guns...retiring...When we got to within 200 yards of the camp, at its front, we all stood" except Pakade's men who were in full flight.
Umhoti then says that at the sound of a bugle the firing ceased and the whole British force retired on the tents
Essex is careful to say at this point that "the right of the 24th was turned" and there was confusion as the flight of the NNC exposed their right flank. Well, we know that did indeed happen due to the forward Zulu uphill move into the gap from which Lonsdale's NNC and "Pakade's men" fled. Thus the right flank of the 24th (as referred to by Essex) would be Dyer's composite coy. Turning their flank is not the same as their being overrun. Dyer and Griffith tried no doubt to maintain some form of defence "calling their men to keep together and be steady". Remember that Dyer was himself found at the rear of the camp indicating that his composite coy was not overrun. The impact on Wardell's coy to Dyer's left would not have been so great. They would have had a chance to retreat in an organised fashion and possibly even be joined by some or all of Dyer's men.
Essex would have been swept along with Lonsdale's men, in a "rabble" and saw no more and took no more part in the fighting.
With such a large field of battle it is important to work out exactly who was where when something was reported and not relate it to parts of the field he couldn't possibly know about.

With regard to the NNC, the Court had heard confusing evidence as to their location and actions on the battlefield, yet they based their findings on the evidence of Capt. Essex, who had clearly stated that he did not know their location. If this was the case did he really meet with Durnford.

But as you say, it would be necesssary to work out indivuals locations .

With regards to the NNC. I can find no evidence that the NNC did anything other than hold their positions until the entire 24th line retired. Would appricate a source that's shows other.

"Umhoti then says that at the sound of a bugle the firing ceased and the whole British force retired on the tents" I have not seen ths before. But I do recall Curling mentioning that he heard the bugle twice.

I need to do a bit more research, as. a PM I have just received tells me Essex statement should not be counted on. ???

The only NNC company on the line was Lonsdales. They were in surport of Wardle. No gaps were made
when the NNC ran. Other officers would probebly have brought small parties of their men with guns forward to help, these wouldn't have got in the way or been a problem.

DB. There was,a gap of several hundred yards between Durnford’s left, and the next 24th company (Lt. Pope’s G. Company 2/24th)

Quote :

The only NNC company on the line was Lonsdales. They were in surport of Wardle. No gaps were made
when the NNC ran. Other officers would probebly have brought small parties of their men with guns forward to help, these wouldn't have got in the way or been a problem.

Still don't understand what you mean ??

That gap wasn't caused by NNC running away.

"The 24th companies are ordered to withdraw, with the intention of taking up a new position closer to the tents.  As they do so, however, the NNC units retire faster than the 24th, gaps appear in the lines, and the Zulus mount a swift assault which pushes between the various 24th companies, and prevents them from re-forming.  The fighting then continues through the camp area, onto the nek below Mount Isandlwana itself, and down into the Manzimnyama valley behind."
Knight,

Last post today. Off to in-laws

Quote :

The fighting then continues through the camp area, onto the nek below Mount Isandlwana itself, and down into the Manzimnyama valley behind."

So now we are getting in to " Younghusband territory " on the " Nek" when he and his men made their last stand.

Hi all

Don't want to throw spanners in the works, etc, but wasn't there a group of men of the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment found amongst the dead with Col Durnford?

I was under the impression that they had rallied around the Colonel to try to hold back the two horns joining, and thereby try to let others escape down the fugitives trail. Happy to be corrected.


LH.

[quote] Last post today. Off to in-laws.

Your lucky mate, mine were more like out-laws, :lol:

Martin.

Hi Mr Cooper

Lt Scott, Captain Bradsreat, 14 Carbinners, 20 NMP and 30 redcoats found around Col. Durnfords body.


One warrior
They threw down their gusn when their ammuntion was done and comansed with there pistols, then they
formed a line shoulder to shoulder and back to back and fourght with knives.

Another warrior
When we closed in, we came to a mixed party of mounted and infantry men who had evidently been stopped by the end of our Horn ... they made a desperate resistance, some firing with pistols and others using swords. I repeatedly heard the word "fire" given by someone. But we proved too many for them and killed them all where they stood. When all was over I had a look at these men, and I saw a dead officer with his arm in a sling and with a big moustache, surrounded by carabineers, soldiers and other men that I didn't know.

Melokazulu interview.
Isandlwana by adrain greaves

DB. Your source please.

DB
To Lonsdale's right was another half-company of NNC - the amaCunu coy, Pakade's men, under Capt Barry. These fled as the Zulus advanced - Erskine categorically states that he saw this.

Here's a few witness accounts regarding Zulu dead at Isandlwana.

"A Sketch of the Kafir and Zulu Wars: Guadana to Isandhlwana (London, 1880):
It fell quite dark as we neared the camp, and we could see fires burning near the ridge, where we expected to find the enemy holding it in force. At about two thousand yards the line was halted, while the guns opened and fired two rounds. We advanced to within about twelve hundred yards, and fired two more rounds. Then, with fixed bayonets, we advanced into the camp, and made our way through, men and horses stumbling over tents half-upset, broken wagons, dead bodies of soldiers and of Zulus, dead oxen, dead horse, dead mules, burst sacks of grain, empty ammunition boxes, articles of camp equipment; and on the ridge, amongst the dead bodies of our comrades, formed our bivouac."


From Patrick Farrell’s letter, describing the same events:
I write you these few and sorrowful lines to let you know that I am still living. Dear brother, on 11 January we crossed into Zululand, and all went well until 22nd… We slept that night amongst dead bodies… In the morning, to look at the camp, what a state! 1,000 white men, and 5,000 black men killed! Wagons broke! Bullocks killed! Tents all gone! It was the most horrid sight that was ever seen by a soldier, dear brother…

Chard - this was in the immediate aftermath of the battle as Chelmsford was returning. Although the Zulus took many of their dead with them, they returned to collect more in the following weeks.
I doubt Farrell counted them (in the dark).

From Patrick Farrell’s letter, is relating to the morning after.

"In the morning, to look at the camp, what a state! 1,000 white men, and 5,000 black men killed! Wagons broke! Bullocks killed!"

Interview with Mehlokazulu Kasihayo (The Battle Of Isandlwana)

This chap must have been well educated in the understanding of British & Colonial regiments that took part in the Battle of Isandlwana. In his interview he names most of the regiments by name.

Quote :

DB
To Lonsdale's right was another half-company of NNC - the amaCunu coy, Pakade's men, under Capt Barry. These fled as the Zulus advanced - Erskine categorically states that he saw this.

Julian can you post your source.

Erskine categorically states that he saw this

His report i geuss.

Can you post a copy or a link to his report.

I don't think this has any bearing on the discussion in hand.

Hi DB

Many thanks for your post, I thought that I had read it somewhere, but couldn't remember if it was on the forum or in a book.

Thanks again for the confirmation.

Martin.

Julian
George Chadwick did indeed leave a first hand account of the cairns on the ridge and the contents there of. Read South African Military History Society report, no4 Vol 4 1979. He also mapped out and photographed the cairns for his report, alas no trace of that report. Ken Gillings has been looking through the Chadwick paers at the museum, so far no luck.

In addition I walked the ridge late seventies and saw a cairn personaly.

90th

The fatigue Party was sent to the Easter side of the camp, the line of advance, to repair the road after Chelmsford advance had created difficulties. It was at the instigation of Coghill and is recorded in his diary.

Regards

Hi all

Julian , it's not a amaCunu coy , but a amaChunu coy.



Pascal

There are various thoughts on the position of the NNC. The original line layout was prepared by Lt Walter James RE on 18th March 1879 and a further one on 11th November 1879 by Captain Anstey, his primary source was James Hammer. Gardiner also left a sketch.
Gerald French in his biography of Lord Chelmsford, used the James map and changed it to suit his theory.
He also added the notation " Native Contingent retreating from the centre and Zulus pouring in and forcing troops back."

There are more than one reference to Pakades men falling back, corroborating each other. Raw puts their position higher up the line than the knuckle than Hammer or Essex.

Personaly, purely my opinion, I wouldnt put to much faith in Essexs' statement. He was after all trying to justify why he ran.

Regards

For all on the NNC at Isandhlwana and for all the zulu war the best book is :

" Black soldiers of the Queen " by P.S.Thompson.



Pascal

I seem to recolect Hamilton Brown mentioning that the dongas at the foot of the Nyoni ridge were full of dead Zulu. And also a statement that the dongas were used as a makeshift burial pit.

Canon Johnson mentions the large number of skeletons to the front of the firing line when he visited with Rev Smith in September.

Regards

69. Lieutenant Wallace B. ERSKINE 1st battalion, 1st Regiment Natal Native Contingent, E coy

(A) A letter was published anonymously by him in the Natal Mercury 22nd February 1879 (reprinted in the Times of Natal 26th February 1879).
(B) Account in the Killie Campbell Africana Library.

Springbok
The SAMJ reads
"During 1928 just before the 50th anniversary, that part of the battlefield where most of the cairns were situated was fenced off and cairns outside this were not regularly cared for. As a result those on the remoter parts of the battlefield became indistinguishable from ordinary heaps of stones. During 1958 a graves curator, in ignorance, flattened many cairns to make them look like ordinary graves. This exposed some remains. The writer was requested to rebuild the cairns, and after studying all available old photographs and relying on his own memory, work was commenced. However, many of the grave-like structures made by the curator were simply covered with stones and are clearly recognisable as incompletely restored cairns. The opportunity was taken to search for neglected cairns. Some forty of these were found, carefully examined for remains, fully documented, photographed, and marked on a plan and rebuilt. These cairns include those out on the ridge where the British companies were stationed and along the route of the fugitives. In view of recent statements that very few British were killed at the advanced positions, it is interesting to note that buttons, boot protectors and bones were found when the neglected cairns were dismantled and documented. This is, of course, not evidence that the casualties at these positions were very heavy."

To be clear, Chadwick elusively mentions that these were on the ridge and along the trail and is the only mention he makes of them. One is mindful of Roberts's death on the ridge and presumably some of his troopers which may explain the reference. Unfortunately the refeence to "boot protectors, bones etc" does not specifically relate to the ridge but to all the rebuilt cairns of the advanced positions.

I'm also intrigued by your having said that you saw a cairn in the late 70s. The popular historian I mentioned told me he saw nothing remaining on the ridge resembling a cairn or the remains of one when he walked the ground in the mid-70s. What exactly did you see and where did you see it? I know this doesn't relate to last stands but it is interesting - please pm me if you prefer.

As for Essex - we are talking about a British officer - noblesse oblige!

Hi Julian
Between 72 and 76 is the most i can pinpoint my talks with George. During a specific conversation about the skeletons found near the church area and the missing two companies theory he pointedly mentioned the closest deaths to the church were on the ridge. I had had discusions with Canon Lumis Grandson about his upcoming book, and about the references of Rev George Smith to skeletons in the area of the church.The following day I spent time on the ridge and saw a loose pile of rocks West of the re entrant area in the area indicated to me.The ground was really bad and very over grown, much worse now. Ive spent a fair amount of time since then on numerous visits trying to locate the area. Without success, so Im afraid the 'pile has been flattened.
A point I mentioned at the time was that there was once plans afoot to build a church of rememberance actually on the battlefield, brain child of the Archdeacon I believe.
I am convinced that his reference to the 'ridge' is exactly that, the so called 'rocky ridge' is a more recent appelation. The saddle/neck has to my mind never been refered to as a ridge and I dont think he would have been refering to Roberts.
A count up of cairns of today and referal to Boast does shown discrepancies.

Im on the battlefields again in a couple of weeks and yet again will try to get to locate any significant rock piles.

Regards

Essex

Not for nothing was he rather ironically named Lucky Essex.

Regards

Springbok
I'm sure you already know but boast had over a decade's worth of restoring the cairns and there is no cairn marked on his map (I have a copy of his original) on the ridge (the rocky ridge crossed my mind too and though it would fit in better with having a proximity to the church, I too think he did mean the ridge on the plateau).
I also know that that particular part of the ridge consists of a jumble of rocks and stones harbouring some nasty snakes. I'm wondering whether if bones were found they would be Zulu bones. After all, there would have been lots of Zulus killed up there - it's where they massing when E & F were pouring volleys into them as they came over the ridge.
springbok
Re Essex, as you know, the appellation Lucky was first applied a year later after his experiences in the 1st Boer War. I don't think it's quite right to call his name into disrepute on the basis that he escaped.
Pascal
It depends whether you follow the name by which they were recorded at the time or a pretty thinly-based American-devised orthography based exclusively on the Latin alphabet. When working with original sources i try not to confuse myself (and others).

LH
The trouble was that it wasn't "once and for all" and he had to keep going back and reburying because the rains kept washing them up!