WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu: Colour Sergeant Bourne: It's a miracle. Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle. Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» LT COL HENRY PULLEINE.
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyToday at 6:32 am by Frank Allewell

» Sergeant Major William English
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyToday at 1:43 am by Eddie

» Military Movements Hewlett Brockelby Brocklesby Tarrant Done Senior Army Hospital Corps
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyToday at 1:32 am by 90th

» A GRAVE CHARGE
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyToday at 1:31 am by Eddie

» Sir Bartle Frere's Ball with list of British officers in South Africa October 1878
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyToday at 1:19 am by 90th

» I have reaped my mealies
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyToday at 1:07 am by 90th

» Prince Imperial model for a statue
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyToday at 1:04 am by 90th

» Private Griggs 1/24th Regiment Coar Looney Russell James Doyle
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyToday at 12:56 am by Julian Whybra

» Military Movements Officer Postings November 1878 J. McAllister Interpreter Mounted Infantry
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyToday at 12:48 am by Julian Whybra

» John Lewis 2nd Company of Royal Engineers
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyToday at 12:29 am by Eddie

» Bushmans Pass memorial
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyYesterday at 9:13 pm by gardner1879

» Private 2047 John Quick 80th Regiment
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyYesterday at 2:57 pm by gardner1879

» The build up to war Evelyn Wood undercover and the first shots of the Zulu War?
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyYesterday at 2:50 pm by gardner1879

» General Thesiger (Chelmsford) Durnford Crealock Gossett
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyYesterday at 2:43 pm by gardner1879

» Sergeant William Cox Army Service Corps Ordnance 2/24th Regiment
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyYesterday at 2:37 pm by gardner1879

» Privates George Homes, John McNally, John Marsh iSandlwana casualty 2/24th Regiment
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyYesterday at 2:22 pm by gardner1879

» Lieutenant Nicholas Henry H Sadlier / Sadleir Jackson 1st Dragoon Guards
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyYesterday at 1:57 pm by John Young

» Colonel William Bellairs Staff
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyYesterday at 9:58 am by rai

» Volunteers Recruitment advert
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyYesterday at 5:58 am by 90th

» Lord Thesiger / Chelmsfords plan to conquer Zululand October 1878
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyYesterday at 5:45 am by 90th

» Military Intellegence Turrant Cuff Hibbard Daly Bell Thornton
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Feb 01, 2023 5:06 pm by gardner1879

» Arrival of troops 1878 Pulleine Upcher Anstey Hodson Heaton Palmer Spalding Mansell
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Feb 01, 2023 4:47 pm by gardner1879

» Captain E Parsons
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Feb 01, 2023 3:05 pm by Eddie

» Captain Robert Francis Vetch
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Feb 01, 2023 2:09 pm by gardner1879

» Ladysmith Zulu War Laager
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Feb 01, 2023 1:56 pm by gardner1879

» Corporal Archer and Trooper Sawyer Weatherly's Border Horse
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Feb 01, 2023 1:49 pm by gardner1879

» Private 1660 John Sligo 1/13th Regiment
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Feb 01, 2023 11:06 am by gardner1879

» iSandlwana a Zulu account describing the Zulu discovery and battle
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyTue Jan 31, 2023 8:51 pm by gardner1879

» Rorke's Drift by Those Who Were There
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyTue Jan 31, 2023 8:02 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private Richard James Kelly 99th Regiment
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyTue Jan 31, 2023 12:19 pm by rai

» The fate of deserters in South Africa
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyTue Jan 31, 2023 2:33 am by 90th

» Sergeant 1574 Fred G Style / Styles 17th Lancers
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyMon Jan 30, 2023 9:52 pm by gardner1879

» Sergeant Armstrong 2nd / 3rd 60th Regiment The best shot in the British Army
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyMon Jan 30, 2023 1:02 pm by gardner1879

» Deserters Eastney Edwards Condon 1st Dragoon Guards Knowland Purnell Simmons Dousben 58th Regiment
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyMon Jan 30, 2023 12:49 pm by gardner1879

» Private 425 John Coates 3/60 Regiment
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyMon Jan 30, 2023 12:11 pm by gardner1879

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
The Missionaries The Zulus & The British Empire in Southern Africa / Full Documentary.
Top posters
90th
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
littlehand
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
ADMIN
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
1879graves
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
rusteze
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
gardner1879
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
John Young
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
gardner1879
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
90th
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
Eddie
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
John Young
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
rai
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
1879graves
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
Gosli
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_leftAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? BarAwarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Bar_right 
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Adding to the Library
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
Jones taylor anstey john Police james brown smith Mounted Prince Roll williams 24th Natal harford Russell George 2022 Franklin rifles Durnford horse Isandlwana henry martini drift
 

 Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?

Go down 
5 posters
AuthorMessage
Kable
Guest




Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Dec 21, 2011 5:54 pm

I'm curious to know if Lt. Melvill had lived even though the Colours were lost in the river and Lt. Coghill had lived by not going back for Melvill meaning his horse did not get shot , would they still have received VCs ? Or would they have then been in the same category as Essex, Cochrane, Gardner, Curling and Smith-Dorrien, as officers who survived by leaving the battlefield, even though Melvill had tried to save the Colours and Coghill may have been carrying (spoken) orders, as none were found on his body unless they were also lost in the river ?


"You wan to win ? Turn me loose !" - Gamer
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8399
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Dec 21, 2011 9:54 pm

Kable
Interesting question.
Melvill wasnt awarded the VC for the aborted rescue of the colors, rather for his rescue of Coghill. Coghill was awarded his gong for returning under fire to rescue Melvill.
Therefore if both had suvived it would have been a really interesting touch of motivation. I believe that at some point the comment was made that IF they had suvived the would have been awarded. Possibly there would have been a bit of an outcry ( stiffled by the colors issue) of the only two officers of the 24th to have suvived.

Good question.

regards
Back to top Go down
Kable
Guest




Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Dec 21, 2011 10:55 pm

Exactly. If Coghill had not went back for Melvill but continued on his way and Melvill though losing the Colours in the river managed to get out by himself and then would not have needed to assist Coghill up the hill, then both could have made it to a safe area. Reaction to their survival by others but also in their own minds considering the other 24th officers were left on the battlefield would have been interesting. Would trying to save the Colours and the information they had of the battle have been enough for to ease any explaining they felt might be necessary for leaving their men ?


"You want to win ? Turn me loose !" - Gamer
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8399
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 8:17 am

If they had suvived i have a feeling that Wolseley may have had a touch more to say about them leaving the battlefield.

regards
Back to top Go down
barry

barry


Posts : 947
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Algoa Bay

Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: VC's awarded at Isandhlwana   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 10:15 am



HI Kable and springbok9,

Some good points raised in your posts.
I personally think, that the real and whole truth be known, that there were a number of men who fought in the battle who were much, much more deserving of VC's than those who did actually receive them.


barry
Back to top Go down
Kable
Guest




Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 3:47 pm

There was an officer at Ntombe who rode away during the battle to raise the alarm and get help, leaving his men to fight. What happened to him afterwards because of this ?


"You want to win ? Turn me loose !" - Gamer
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10668
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 66
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Awarded VC's if Melvill & Coghill had lived .   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 11:14 pm

Hi Kable .
The officer in question was Lt. Harward , i'm not home at present so dont have access to my books . Fairly certain there was
a court - marial or some sort of hearing which the verdict was in Harward's favour but I think he resigned not long after . Happy to be corrected . Idea .
cheers 90th . 😕
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3320
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 11:38 pm

Hi Kable

Lieutenant H H Harward was tried by a general court-martial at Napier, Pietermaritzburg, on 20th February 1880. Two charges were brought before the court.
1) Of having misbehaved before the enemy, in shameful abandoning a party of the Regiment under his command when attacked by the enemy, and in riding off at speed from his men.
2) Of conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline in having, at the place and time mentioned in the first charge, neglected to take proper precautions for the safety of a party of a regiment under his command when attacked.
The court found Harward ‘Not Guilty’ on both counts. The findings of the court were submitted for formal approval to Sir Garnet Wolseley. He disapproved of the findings and would not confirm them.
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
90th

90th


Posts : 10668
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 66
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Awarded VC's if Melvill & Coghill had lived .   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 11:47 pm

Hi Graves1879.
Thanks Mate , much appreciated . Idea .
cheers 90th. 😕 😕 .
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?    Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyFri Dec 23, 2011 1:17 pm

Hi

It is well known that these two, took advantage of the fact that it was necessary to save the colors to get the hell out as so aptly pointed out the replacing of Chelmsford.

Cheers

Pascal

Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 25

Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyFri Dec 23, 2011 2:54 pm

Coghill didn't have anything to do with saving the colour...............................
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyFri Dec 23, 2011 3:15 pm


But even Wolseley said...

Moreover, he did not think of many defenders of Rorke's Drift, I am not making look on googlevideo "Zulu,le defis guerrier" in english and french language ,it's extra ,all myths are destroyed Wink

Cheers

Pascal














Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10668
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 66
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Awarded VC'S IF Melvill & Coghill Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptySat Dec 24, 2011 3:06 am

Hi Pascal .
Harward also had nothing to do with the colours , he claimed he was going for Reinforcements !!.
Cheers 90th. 😕
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptySat Dec 24, 2011 8:08 am


Hi 90th

Yeah, there are cowards in all armies, even of victoria, in the French army, the excuse for his life was picking up wounded during a battle, wounded by four men!

And if Melvill & Coghill had stink save their skins and bring the flag, they would have their weight in victoria cross for political reasons as those of Rorke's Drift ...

At least Durford Pulleine and have had the decency to get killed ...

I'm sorry for the non-commissioned officers and soldiers, but not the officers ...

An officer who survived the massacre of his troop should die of shame ...

Cheers

Pascal














Back to top Go down
 
Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Melvill & Coghill friends before or not.
» Coghill and Melvill issue
» The Death of Lts. Melvill and Coghill at Isandlwana
» Melvill and Coghill by Alphonse de Neuville
» Melvill and Coghill Victoria Cross query

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: