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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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 Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?

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Kable
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Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Dec 21, 2011 3:54 pm

I'm curious to know if Lt. Melvill had lived even though the Colours were lost in the river and Lt. Coghill had lived by not going back for Melvill meaning his horse did not get shot , would they still have received VCs ? Or would they have then been in the same category as Essex, Cochrane, Gardner, Curling and Smith-Dorrien, as officers who survived by leaving the battlefield, even though Melvill had tried to save the Colours and Coghill may have been carrying (spoken) orders, as none were found on his body unless they were also lost in the river ?


"You wan to win ? Turn me loose !" - Gamer
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7507
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Dec 21, 2011 7:54 pm

Kable
Interesting question.
Melvill wasnt awarded the VC for the aborted rescue of the colors, rather for his rescue of Coghill. Coghill was awarded his gong for returning under fire to rescue Melvill.
Therefore if both had suvived it would have been a really interesting touch of motivation. I believe that at some point the comment was made that IF they had suvived the would have been awarded. Possibly there would have been a bit of an outcry ( stiffled by the colors issue) of the only two officers of the 24th to have suvived.

Good question.

regards
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Kable
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Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyWed Dec 21, 2011 8:55 pm

Exactly. If Coghill had not went back for Melvill but continued on his way and Melvill though losing the Colours in the river managed to get out by himself and then would not have needed to assist Coghill up the hill, then both could have made it to a safe area. Reaction to their survival by others but also in their own minds considering the other 24th officers were left on the battlefield would have been interesting. Would trying to save the Colours and the information they had of the battle have been enough for to ease any explaining they felt might be necessary for leaving their men ?


"You want to win ? Turn me loose !" - Gamer
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 6:17 am

If they had suvived i have a feeling that Wolseley may have had a touch more to say about them leaving the battlefield.

regards
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barry

barry

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PostSubject: VC's awarded at Isandhlwana   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 8:15 am



HI Kable and springbok9,

Some good points raised in your posts.
I personally think, that the real and whole truth be known, that there were a number of men who fought in the battle who were much, much more deserving of VC's than those who did actually receive them.


barry
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Kable
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PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 1:47 pm

There was an officer at Ntombe who rode away during the battle to raise the alarm and get help, leaving his men to fight. What happened to him afterwards because of this ?


"You want to win ? Turn me loose !" - Gamer
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90th

90th

Posts : 10089
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Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Awarded VC's if Melvill & Coghill had lived .   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 9:14 pm

Hi Kable .
The officer in question was Lt. Harward , i'm not home at present so dont have access to my books . Fairly certain there was
a court - marial or some sort of hearing which the verdict was in Harward's favour but I think he resigned not long after . Happy to be corrected . Idea .
cheers 90th . 😕
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1879graves

1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 9:38 pm

Hi Kable

Lieutenant H H Harward was tried by a general court-martial at Napier, Pietermaritzburg, on 20th February 1880. Two charges were brought before the court.
1) Of having misbehaved before the enemy, in shameful abandoning a party of the Regiment under his command when attacked by the enemy, and in riding off at speed from his men.
2) Of conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline in having, at the place and time mentioned in the first charge, neglected to take proper precautions for the safety of a party of a regiment under his command when attacked.
The court found Harward ‘Not Guilty’ on both counts. The findings of the court were submitted for formal approval to Sir Garnet Wolseley. He disapproved of the findings and would not confirm them.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Awarded VC's if Melvill & Coghill had lived .   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyThu Dec 22, 2011 9:47 pm

Hi Graves1879.
Thanks Mate , much appreciated . Idea .
cheers 90th. 😕 😕 .
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PostSubject: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?    Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyFri Dec 23, 2011 11:17 am

Hi

It is well known that these two, took advantage of the fact that it was necessary to save the colors to get the hell out as so aptly pointed out the replacing of Chelmsford.

Cheers

Pascal

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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyFri Dec 23, 2011 12:54 pm

Coghill didn't have anything to do with saving the colour...............................
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PostSubject: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptyFri Dec 23, 2011 1:15 pm


But even Wolseley said...

Moreover, he did not think of many defenders of Rorke's Drift, I am not making look on googlevideo "Zulu,le defis guerrier" in english and french language ,it's extra ,all myths are destroyed Wink

Cheers

Pascal














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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Awarded VC'S IF Melvill & Coghill Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptySat Dec 24, 2011 1:06 am

Hi Pascal .
Harward also had nothing to do with the colours , he claimed he was going for Reinforcements !!.
Cheers 90th. 😕
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PostSubject: Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ?   Awarded VCs If Lt. Melvill And Lt. Coghill Had Lived ? EmptySat Dec 24, 2011 6:08 am


Hi 90th

Yeah, there are cowards in all armies, even of victoria, in the French army, the excuse for his life was picking up wounded during a battle, wounded by four men!

And if Melvill & Coghill had stink save their skins and bring the flag, they would have their weight in victoria cross for political reasons as those of Rorke's Drift ...

At least Durford Pulleine and have had the decency to get killed ...

I'm sorry for the non-commissioned officers and soldiers, but not the officers ...

An officer who survived the massacre of his troop should die of shame ...

Cheers

Pascal














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