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Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
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 Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana

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quint



Posts : 33
Join date : 2010-11-15

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PostSubject: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptyTue Apr 03, 2012 3:51 pm

Why so many artillerymen at Isandlwana?

Isn't it correct that there were just 2 small "cannon".. but I think there were something like 80 gunners and drivers etc
Sorry if I am being dumb on this - but why were so many men per gun needed?
Were they there for other guns out with Chelmsford?
Thanks for assistance.
Q

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90th

90th

Posts : 10136
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Number Of Artilleryman at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptyTue Apr 03, 2012 3:59 pm

Hi Quint .
I think from memory 4 of the guns went with the Good Lord Chelmesford's Force . Happy to be corrected . I dont have access to books till tomorrow , where did you see there were 80 R.A. men at Isandhlwautf? . Do you mean there were 80 killed there , or was that
the number given with the column ? . Hope this made sense .
cheers 90th. Salute
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quint



Posts : 33
Join date : 2010-11-15

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptyTue Apr 03, 2012 4:06 pm

It seems that close to 60 - rather than 80 - were killed at Isandlwana and we know a few escaped. But if some were there to serve the guns with Chelmsford, why were they not with those guns (ie the 60 + survivors in camp)? How many gunners are needed to load a small cannon? I wouldn't have thought that more than 4 could sensibly do the task for each cannon. Any suggestions on the composition of a team per gun in terms of gunners and drivers? Thanks for any ideas Q
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1998
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Age : 23

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptyTue Apr 03, 2012 6:18 pm

I think around 20 were needed for the 2 guns.

The others were probebly sick, looking after kit or officers servants.


Cheers
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quint



Posts : 33
Join date : 2010-11-15

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptyTue Apr 03, 2012 6:49 pm

Drummer Boy 14 wrote:
I think around 20 were needed for the 2 guns.

The others were probebly sick, looking after kit or officers servants.


Cheers

Thanks DB.
Maybe.
Still seems a bit odd - 40-odd extras ... looking after what kit.. the guns? Like a maintenance team ... perhaps
Would artillerymen serve as officers servants? Would they serve as servants outside the RA? I think there were only 2 RA officers at Iz, weren't there?
Q
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John

John

Posts : 2558
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Age : 58
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptyTue Apr 03, 2012 7:33 pm

2 guns and 70 men of N Battery, 5th Brigade, Royal Artillery (equipped with 2 seven pounder guns).


Captain and Brevet-Major Stuart Smith

Brevet-Major F. B.  Russell, R.A., Rocket Battery

Sergeant Edwards, William 3483 Corporal Bailey, H.R. 1119 Corporal Cooper, William 2721 Corporal  Langridge, John 1872
Bombardier Parker, John 746 A/Bombardier Nash, Thomas 1763 A/Bombardier Leguay, John 3181 A/Bombardier McDonnell, James 2196
A/Bombardier Aylett, James 1882  A/Bombardier Boswell, Thomas 147 Farrier Sergeant Whinham, Robert 841 Collar Maker Shepperd, Thomas753
Shoeing Smith Elliott, Thomas1462      
Gunners:      
Beech, Frank. 1883 Berry, Thomas 655 1885 Burke, James Byrne, James 2189
Cockrane, Samuel 646 Collins, Robert 1311 1082 Connelly, John 1637 Davies, Isaac
Dickins, William 3484 Harrison, Thomas 668 Hicks, James 1412 James, Edward G.1773
King, Charles 1834 Lamb, James 1113 McGregor, Murdoch 2945  Mead, James 1655
Marshall, William 1683 Miller, Thomas 2630 O'Neal, Daniel 2633 Page, Henry 2322
Redman, Alexander 1438 Reede, John 692 Regan, John 2460 Roscoe, William 2183
Smythe, Joseph 1405 Stevenson, Joseph 1833 ("Joseph" in the despatch "R." on the roll) Williams, Robert 2652 Wilson, Thomas 2819
Wilson, William 1626 Woolacott, Alfred 704    
       
Drivers:      
Adams, William 1471 Allen, Henry 751 Barron, William 707 Bishop, Charles 1524
Brooks, James 2174 Bruce, Thomas 1961 Clarke, Thomas 1598 Cowley, Henry 2301
Dailey, John 1185 Hiatt, William 727 Hutchings, James 723 Jones, J. William 2178
Joyce, Leonard 1997 Marchant, John741 McKeown, George 2119 Murphy, Francis 2015
648 Spread, Charles      
       
Also on the despatch cannot locate elsewhere??:  Bailey, George 1073 , Driver.

Curling Escaped.
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quint



Posts : 33
Join date : 2010-11-15

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptyTue Apr 03, 2012 7:44 pm

Thanks John
What is the difference between a Bombardier and a Gunner?
Q
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1879graves

1879graves

Posts : 3049
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptyTue Apr 03, 2012 7:46 pm

Hi quint

Have a look at this good article on ARTILLERY IN THE ZULU WAR - 1879 by Major D.D. Hall

http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol044dh.html
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http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
free1954



Posts : 174
Join date : 2012-02-16
Location : northeast usa

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptySat Apr 07, 2012 11:43 am

1879graves wrote:
Hi quint

Have a look at this good article on ARTILLERY IN THE ZULU WAR - 1879 by Major D.D. Hall

http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol044dh.html




great link. thanks for posting it,
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thinredlineMOD

thinredlineMOD

Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-04-12

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptyFri Apr 13, 2012 11:57 pm

quint wrote:
Why so many artillerymen at Isandlwana

This might answer your question.

Quote :
The battery was divided into three divisions, each of two guns, under the command of a lieutenant. [...] Of the battery’s three divisions, only Lieutenant Henry Curling’s division was present at Isandlwana. [...] The battery’s rear details, a combination of drivers, orderlies, farriers, saddlers, armourers and so on, had also been left behind at the camp, so that in total the Royal Artillery fielded two officers and 71 other ranks.
Source: Notes on the Composition of the British Force at Isandlwana by Lt. Col. Mike Snook
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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7086
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Age : 52
Location : Down South.

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptySun Apr 15, 2012 10:44 am

thinredlineMOD. Thanks for that. Salute
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thinredlineMOD

thinredlineMOD

Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-04-12

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptySun Apr 15, 2012 7:30 pm

You're welcome. Mike Snook's article is a very good read on the matter and also freely available online. I'm too new here to post the link but googling the title will lead you straight to the pdf-file. It's hosted by empressminiatures.
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1998
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Age : 23

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PostSubject: Re: Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana   Number of artillerymen at Isandlwana EmptySun Apr 15, 2012 8:06 pm

Here's the link

http://www.empressminiatures.com/BritishForces.pdf
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