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 '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''

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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptyFri May 04, 2012 8:13 pm

Hi All

Posted on behalf of 90th's Friend.

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90th

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PostSubject: Brickhill's Account Of Isandhlwautf   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySat May 05, 2012 12:32 am

Hi Graves.
Thanks mate for your help it's very much appreciated . Hopefully Impi and Springbok will enjoy it ?.
Cheers 90th. Salute
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySat May 05, 2012 8:59 am

1879Graves. You and your friend get 5 stars Salute
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySat May 05, 2012 10:24 am

Hi Chaps.

Well done 1879 Graves, 90th and friend.

Can someone explain please, is there now a different spelling of iSandlwana, or is this "Isandhlwautf" a different place? scratch

There have been different spellings over the years, so which is the correct one?

Martin. Salute
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySat May 05, 2012 4:55 pm

Isandhlwautf . Evidently this is the correct way to spell it.
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySat May 05, 2012 6:36 pm

and at first I thought Isandhlwautf was one of those typical errors which happens while scanning text but indeed its true... Rolling Eyes

" The meaning of Isandhlwana, or more correctly Tsandhlwane, is neither ‘ little hand/ nor ‘ little house/ nor any other of the hundred and one interpretations which were devised at the time of the disaster, but refers to a portion of bovine intestinal anatomy. The spelling of the word which I shall observe throughout these pages will be that which is now universally employed, though ‘ Isandhlwautf * is the more correct. The pronunciation of the word is exactly according to its orthography, every letter being distinctly sounded. "

Mitford, Bertram: Through Zulu Country. Its battlefields and people. (1883) p.88

@1879graves
thanks for posting

edit: Isandhlwautf seems to be a scanning error
go here for a scan of the book which is correctly scanned
http://archive.org/stream/throughzulucount00mitfrich/throughzulucount00mitfrich_djvu.txt


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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySat May 05, 2012 7:31 pm

How would this be pounced. Salute
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90th

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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Brickhills account of Isandlwana   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySat May 05, 2012 9:22 pm

Hi All.
There is a rather large thread on the '' Spelling '' of Isandhlwana ; if you use the search box I'm sure you'll come across it .
Cheers 90th. Salute
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySun May 06, 2012 10:20 am

iSandlwana

Bertram Midford wrote that pronunciation in 1883. Sounds like a dog with a cleft pallet.

Cheers
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySun May 06, 2012 4:28 pm

Hi 90th.

Found the thread you refer to, however, it would seem that Ken Gillings doesn't agree with this new spelling, as Dave suggested that we should all start spelling it 'isandhlwautf', but Ken says "that will be the day".

As you mentioned (on the thread), the sign for the battlefield reads 'ISANDLWANA', and as almost everyone interested in the AZW appears to call it by that name, I think I will stick to the name we are all familier with, as this new way of spelling it just doesn't look right, so it's still isandlwana for me mate.

Hi springbok.

Where did Midford get that from, did he dream it up himself, or did he investigate and ask the 'locals' for the correct way of spelling it and its correct pronunciation? if so, you never know, they might have been leading him up the garden path. :lol:

Salute
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySun May 06, 2012 4:32 pm

Hi Martin
He probably asked a bloke with half his jaw blown of by a Martini Henry and then spelt it as it pnonetically. Personally in many many visits ive never heard that pronunciation, maybe thats the way the SWB pronounced it in 79. :lol: :lol:

Sorry Mate had to get the winfd upf in.

:evil:

Cheefrs
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySun May 06, 2012 4:38 pm

Hi sftpingy.

You abftsolute sftinker :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers mate. Salute
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySun May 06, 2012 5:41 pm

Quote :
Dave suggested that we should all start spelling it 'isandhlwautf', but Ken says "that will be the day".

I read Ken's post as saying yes, but it wouldn't happen as to many spell it the wrong way.?
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptySun May 06, 2012 6:00 pm

Hi impi.

It could be a different thread that you read, as on the one I found, Ken said "That will be the day".

I still think it looks better the way we are all familier with, even if it is wrong. :lol:

Salute

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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Isandlwautf - spelling   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptyMon May 07, 2012 5:25 pm

Hi martin,

I think Mitford was having a bad day, or else he was giving a second hand account to a transcriptor but had left his dentures in the tent.

I know the spelling changed slightly over the decades so I looked back at old records, paper cuttings etc and found that the place Isandhlwana had a "h" in its spelling still in the 1930's. That "h" was dropped in the spelling subsequently, ie the "h" became silent and the new spelling devolving, as used today , is Isandlwana.
All SA maps and others are marked accordinglingy.
Now, one forum member asked, not being familiar with Zulu, how the word was spoken. Here's how the phonetic sounding would be ;

i as in English in "e"lectric
sand as in a "sund" er (SA accent)
l as in the Welsh town "Ll "anelli
wan as in the English "wan"
a as in "a"part

regards

barry
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptyMon May 07, 2012 6:10 pm

Barry. I think Mitford Learnt this from the Zulus?
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptyTue May 08, 2012 10:00 am

Just re read Bertram Mitford.
In my copy: page 24 the paragraph refered to by Thinred line has the spelling as isandhlwane, not an F in sight.

So not a clue where the F comes in?

Cheers
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptyTue May 08, 2012 10:56 am

springbok9 wrote:
Just re read Bertram Mitford.
In my copy: page 24 the paragraph refered to by Thinred line has the spelling as isandhlwane, not an F in sight.

So not a clue where the F comes in?

Cheers
Damn, you're right! There's two versions of Mitford's book on archive.org

this one with "Isandhlwautf" which seems to be a scanning error indeed
http://archive.org/stream/throughzulucoun00mitfgoog/throughzulucoun00mitfgoog_djvu.txt

and this, slightly shorter, but with the conventional spelling we're used to
http://archive.org/stream/throughzulucount00mitfrich/throughzulucount00mitfrich_djvu.txt

cheers
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptyTue May 08, 2012 11:01 am

TRL
So literally no F in Isandhlwautf:lol:

Been waiting to say that. :evil: :lol:

Cheers Mate
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptyTue May 08, 2012 11:14 am

Quote :
So literally no F
I bet there was a lot on the day.
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'' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' Empty
PostSubject: Re: '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf''   '' Brickhill's account of Isandhlwautf'' EmptyTue May 08, 2012 11:31 am

springbok9 wrote:
TRL
So literally no F in Isandhlwautf:lol:

Been waiting to say that. :evil: :lol:

Cheers Mate
it was too good to be true :lol:
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