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» Zulu War veterans 1/13th Ashford, Pring and Parkhouse
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» Private 25B/1512 George Purnell 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot 2nd Battalion
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» John Samuel Jobbins. Rorkes Drift Defender.
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» Umtegolalo's account of the retreat from iSandlwana
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» Thomas Clayton Rorke's Drift
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» The Mystery of Mansells sighting.
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» William Ryan / alias Regan
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» The old historic Hely family
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» The Irish Zulus
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» QUIZ - 2nd campaign medal for RD defender
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» Hlobane and Kambula
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» Cpl John Lyons
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» Captain James Pendery
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» Private James White 515 2/24
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» Cpl's Carl Scammell/John Wilson/Wm Daughty.
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» Francis William Bruce 1st NNC?
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 By JULIAN WHYBRA Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published

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Julian Whybra




Posts : 3056
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: By JULIAN WHYBRA Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published   By JULIAN WHYBRA  Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published - Page 3 EmptyFri Oct 19, 2012 9:08 pm

6pdr
In terms of the Durnford Papers article, the answer is significantly. In terms of the Trollope article, not particularly, except that it provided a homely insight into a soldier's everyday experience in SA in the 1870s.
As for the Brave Fugitive article it demonstrated a number of points. I'll take a few but I don't want to write an essay on this.
It certainly showed that at least 10 (and possibly another 6) out of the 91 definite and possible European survivors and between a third and a half of the African survivors escaped via the road rather than by Fugitives' Drift by forcing a gap through the right horn. This represents a significant proportion of the survivors. There has in the past been an over-emphasis on the Fugitives' Trail route. In escaping all together en masse in that way it accounts for the Zulus' inability to massacre the entire camp. I don't really think a conscious decision was made re warning RD. I think it was more a case of the road providing the better ground for riding a horse - it was also the 'known' route.
It further showed that there had been deliberate attempts to warn the Drift (Fletcher, Evans and Whelan, Adendorff and Sibthorpe).
It showed how using a variety of primary sources can be used to bring to light new evidence.
Readers will decide for themselves ultimately. It is for them to decide import not me.
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6pdr

6pdr


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PostSubject: Re: By JULIAN WHYBRA Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published   By JULIAN WHYBRA  Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published - Page 3 EmptyFri Oct 19, 2012 9:34 pm

Julian Whybra wrote:
6pdr
As for the Brave Fugitive article it demonstrated a number of points. I'll take a few but I don't want to write an essay on this.

Thank you very much for taking the time out to explain! Salute
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24th

24th


Posts : 1862
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LH.
Quote :
This is another one of those publication, that can only be proven to be incorrect, if someone can show by using primary sources that it is incorrect,

Makes sense. Until this can be done, I guess we have to keep an open mind or accept that "Hall" was the man.
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Julian Whybra




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24th
At a personal level, when I first saw this letter it was obvious to me that the man could NOT be Adendorff; the facts just didn't fit. And it seemed to me that if the assumption that he was did not go unchallenged, then it would further add to the slur on his character and also add to the 'myths' of Isandhlwana. Fiction can have a strange way of becoming fact and I couldn't bear another 'screwdriver-ammunition- scenario'. So, I decided to analyse the sources to prove that it wasn't Adendorff. And this I did. The natural corollary to that was of course - well, if it wasn't Adendorff, then who was it. So, I was obliged to narrow the field and find overlapping evidence to reveal the writer's identity.
I think I'm right on both counts. I don't often stick my neck out and I usually add a few ifs and buts but this time I'm certain I'm not wrong - the evidence is overwhelming. So, I don't think that in the future it will be 'proven' not to be the case as LH wrote and I hope it'll set the record straight re Adendorff.
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper


Posts : 2522
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

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PostSubject: Julian Whybra Studies in the Zulu war   By JULIAN WHYBRA  Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published - Page 3 EmptySat Oct 20, 2012 11:05 am

Quote;

'Fiction can have a strange way of becoming fact'

How right you are Julian, how right you are.
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impi

impi


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Was "Witt" with Hall & Henderson.

"Before I started I saw a Zulu alone at the barricade, kneeling and firing. The whole force drew nearer, and the battle drew on heavier. Soon the hospital was on fire. Our people found it impossible to defend themselves inside the barricade. They must retire within the walls, thus entering the commissariat store. The sick people were brought here, except five who could not be removed, and who were stabbed by the Zulus and burnt. That the hospital was set on fire was certainly a great personal loss for me, as all my property was burnt; but it was of great importance for the whole colony, and especially for the people in the commissariat stores, as the flames of the burning house enabled them to aim properly on the Zulus and thus keep them at a fair distance. If the Zulus had known what they ought they should never have put fire to the house, and the heavy darkness of that dreadful night would have made our troops unable to defend themselves as they did".

Ian Knight.
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Julian Whybra




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impi
No, I'm afraid he wasn't. He left before the fight began.
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littlehand

littlehand


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Location : Down South.

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Impi. Witt was giving mixed accounts blended with what see saw, and what others a stated in their accounts. I believe he even claimed to have been at the Battle of ISandlwana. I did at one point consider the " Brave Fugitive" account as being one of the many put out by "Witt" but if you read Julians essay, it's plain to see, that, that account could only have come from someone who really was at Isandlwana.. If you get my meaning.
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Julian Whybra




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little hand
Quite right.
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littlehand

littlehand


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Mr Whybra, order just in. You are to ride at once to the RDVC and defend your book. Someone doesn't agree with something on page 5 or 19. Salute I would send Col Durnford to support you, but he's still following orders he received on the 19th. But I will get my men to climb the nearest hill and keep you under observation with his naval state of the art telescope... Salute
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Zulu war publications ; By Julian Whybra .   By JULIAN WHYBRA  Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published - Page 3 EmptyMon Nov 26, 2012 9:11 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
90th.
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Julian Whybra




Posts : 3056
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LHand
Then make sure they're not looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
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littlehand

littlehand


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No!! We had a man named "Milne" who made that mistake back in 1879. He thought he saw oxen in one of our camps?
We put labels on now saying " This way round"
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6pdr

6pdr


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Location : NYC

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PostSubject: Re: By JULIAN WHYBRA Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published   By JULIAN WHYBRA  Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published - Page 3 EmptyTue Nov 27, 2012 9:03 pm

littlehand wrote:
No!! We had a man named "Milne" who made that mistake back in 1879. He thought he saw oxen in one of our camps?
We put labels on now saying " This way round"

:lol:
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Chard1879

Chard1879


Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

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PostSubject: Re: By JULIAN WHYBRA Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published   By JULIAN WHYBRA  Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published - Page 3 EmptyTue Nov 27, 2012 10:15 pm

Is he walking to the RDVC or horseback. Because he hasn't arrived yet?
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impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 42

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PostSubject: Re: By JULIAN WHYBRA Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published   By JULIAN WHYBRA  Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published - Page 3 EmptyWed Nov 28, 2012 12:36 am

You don't think he's deserted do you? :joker:
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barry

barry


Posts : 947
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Algoa Bay

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PostSubject: Rivers swollen   By JULIAN WHYBRA  Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published - Page 3 EmptyWed Nov 28, 2012 5:35 am


Hi All,

No, the place is awash; it is the rainy season , the rivers are in flood and crossings are very difficult .

regards

barry
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90th

90th


Posts : 10483
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 66
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Julian's New updated Englands son's   By JULIAN WHYBRA  Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published - Page 3 EmptyFri Feb 22, 2013 2:39 am

Just a note to Bill asking him to give a big thumbs up to those involved in the online shop . Julians' updated version
of Englands Son's only took 6 days or so from the time I sent the purchase through to its arrival here in Melbourne .
Good Stuff Guys .
Cheers 90th. Salute
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bill cainan




Posts : 225
Join date : 2011-09-19

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PostSubject: Re: By JULIAN WHYBRA Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published   By JULIAN WHYBRA  Studies in the Zulu War 1879: New research I've just finished and had published - Page 3 EmptyFri Feb 22, 2013 8:53 am

90th

Thanks for the praise - I will certainly pass it on.

Bill
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