WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Colonialism: A Moral Legacy
24th survivors EmptyYesterday at 5:25 pm by Julian Whybra

» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
24th survivors EmptyYesterday at 11:37 am by lydenburg

» Writing advice
24th survivors EmptyTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large
24th survivors EmptyWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash

» Sergeant W E Warren RA - Veteran
24th survivors EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 9:32 pm by Matthew Turl

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
24th survivors EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra

» 100,000 posts!
24th survivors EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
24th survivors EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
24th survivors EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
24th survivors EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» British rations and morale
24th survivors EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra

» Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private Hagan
24th survivors EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN

» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana
24th survivors EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» William J Hoare 24th Regiment??
24th survivors EmptySun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash

» Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW
24th survivors EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
24th survivors EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young

» Philip Price
24th survivors EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
24th survivors EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879
24th survivors EmptyThu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
24th survivors EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra

» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
24th survivors EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:47 am by Julian Whybra

» About the second invasion
24th survivors EmptyTue Feb 20, 2024 9:14 pm by 90th

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
24th survivors EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

» Watford band boys killed at iSandlwana
24th survivors EmptyFri Feb 16, 2024 8:26 am by Julian Whybra

» Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot
24th survivors EmptySun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 am by 90th

» Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)
24th survivors EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 9:55 pm by ADMIN

» The anniversary of 22nd January in 2024
24th survivors EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 3:51 pm by luke1997

» What was the distance?
24th survivors EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 8:46 am by Stefaan

» Mrs Henry Hook
24th survivors EmptyTue Feb 06, 2024 3:14 pm by Kenny

» "With 6 good riflemen"
24th survivors EmptyMon Feb 05, 2024 2:30 pm by Mr M. Cooper

» What was G company supposed to do?
24th survivors EmptySun Feb 04, 2024 9:31 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private 1445 Charles Meates 17th Lancers and his brother William Wylie
24th survivors EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 10:07 pm by John Young

» South Africa Medal With Clasp To Pvt J. Salter 3/60th
24th survivors EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 3:12 pm by Foody

» Weatherleys Border Horse Flag
24th survivors EmptyThu Feb 01, 2024 9:40 pm by Herbie

» Edward Plantagenet Kemeys-Tynte
24th survivors EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:06 pm by Edjg

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
March 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
24th survivors Bar_left24th survivors Bar24th survivors Bar_right 
Dash
24th survivors Bar_left24th survivors Bar24th survivors Bar_right 
Hobbes
24th survivors Bar_left24th survivors Bar24th survivors Bar_right 
SRB1965
24th survivors Bar_left24th survivors Bar24th survivors Bar_right 
Bill8183
24th survivors Bar_left24th survivors Bar24th survivors Bar_right 
John Young
24th survivors Bar_left24th survivors Bar24th survivors Bar_right 
ADMIN
24th survivors Bar_left24th survivors Bar24th survivors Bar_right 
jgregory
24th survivors Bar_left24th survivors Bar24th survivors Bar_right 
Tim Needham
24th survivors Bar_left24th survivors Bar24th survivors Bar_right 
1879graves
24th survivors Bar_left24th survivors Bar24th survivors Bar_right 
New topics
» Colonialism: A Moral Legacy
24th survivors EmptyYesterday at 5:25 pm by Julian Whybra

» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
24th survivors EmptyYesterday at 11:37 am by lydenburg

» Writing advice
24th survivors EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 8:57 pm by Hobbes

» 100,000 posts!
24th survivors EmptySun Mar 17, 2024 11:14 am by ADMIN

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
24th survivors EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 8:27 pm by Rob Herrick

» British rations and morale
24th survivors EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:24 pm by Hobbes

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
24th survivors EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
24th survivors EmptyFri Feb 23, 2024 2:23 am by peterfarrell

» About the second invasion
24th survivors EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 9:53 pm by Hobbes

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 24th survivors

Go down 
+7
Chard1879
impi
John
littlehand
Kenny
kwajimu1879
horsefixer
11 posters
AuthorMessage
horsefixer




Posts : 37
Join date : 2010-07-25

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySat Jul 13, 2013 2:23 pm

I read that there were 10 survivors from Isandlwana. I have these 6
Private. Davis 1/24th
Private. Parry 1/24th
Private. Power 1/24th
Bandsman Wilson
Bandsman Bickley
Private Williams

Can anyone tell me who the other 4 were?
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySat Jul 13, 2013 4:02 pm

Horsefixer,

No. 1 Squadron Mounted Infantry

Cpl. John McCan
Pte. Henry Davis
Pte. William Parry
Pte. John Power

Rocket Battery

Pte. Hector Grant
Pte. William Johnson
Pte. James Trainer

'B' Company

Pte. Edmund Wilson

'D' Company

Pte. John Williams

'F' Company

Pte. James Bickley

'Jimu
Back to top Go down
horsefixer




Posts : 37
Join date : 2010-07-25

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySat Jul 13, 2013 4:56 pm

Brilliant! Thanks 'jimu. How did they do the roll call after? Did someone literally stand there and read out the names of 575 missing men?
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySat Jul 13, 2013 6:41 pm

Horsefixer,

I doubt it very much as the Pay & Muster Rolls were lost at Isandlwana.

'Jimu
Back to top Go down
horsefixer




Posts : 37
Join date : 2010-07-25

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySat Jul 13, 2013 11:28 pm

Aha! Thanks 'jimu, that was very helpful.
Back to top Go down
Kenny




Posts : 584
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 12:22 am

Hi Horsefixer

Don't forget the 21 officers (including Melvill & Coghill) of the 24th who fell in addition to 575 men.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 55
Location : Down South.

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 1:02 am

2nd/24th Pte Frederick EVANS attached to the Mounted Infantry.
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 9:03 am

Littlehand,

littlehand wrote:
2nd/24th Pte Frederick EVANS attached to the Mounted Infantry.

Should that be Private Edward Evans, of the 2nd Battn, 3rd (East Kent) Regiment?

2nd/24th supplied men to No. 2 Squadron, Mounted Infantry, which was attached to Pearson's Column.

'Jimu
Back to top Go down
John

John


Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 61
Location : UK

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 9:50 am

No Jim it's Frederick Evans 2nd24th
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 10:17 am

John,

Just to clarify are you referring to Private 25th Brigade/953 Frederick Evans?

'Jimu
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 55
Location : Down South.

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 11:01 am

Jim possibly the same number.
I was under the impression Frederick Evans was with H Company 2nd/24th. He was placeed on Col Bournes roll, thought to have been one of the defenders, but he rode on to warn others.

Happy to be corrected!
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 11:16 am

Littlehand,

Private 25B./953 Frederick Evans, H Company 2nd/24th was a Rorke's Drift defender.

Given the Jenkins debate, Frederick Evans appears on 'Chard' Roll; the Frank Bourne Roll and the Dunbar Roll as a defender. He was also presented with the Bible.

As I stated above the 2nd/24th only supplied their mounted infantrymen to No. 2 Squadron Mounted Infantry.

Despite what has been written on this site in previous posts, and in at least two modern works, I can find no evidence that Frederick Evans could possibly have been a mounted infantryman at Isandlwana.

'Jimu

Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 55
Location : Down South.

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 11:24 am

Ah! I will have to check, but I think there was some debate on this. Evans didn't say at RD. Will get back later on.
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 44

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 11:35 am

Ian Knight wrote:
Pte. 25B/953 Frederick Evans, who was serving with the Mounted Infantry and was a survivor of iSandlwana, received the Mayoral address despite very clear indications that, although he had ridden past the post at Rorke’s Drift and stopped to warn the garrison, he had not stayed to assist in the defence. 

This from Ian Knights artical in the David Jenkins discussion!
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 11:46 am

Impi,

Read what I wrote:

kwajimu1879 wrote:
Despite what has been written on this site in previous posts, and in at least two modern works, I can find no evidence that Frederick Evans could possibly have been a mounted infantryman at Isandlwana.

Considering you were one of those banging on about rolls before over Jenkins, Frederick Evans is on all three rolls, now are you casting doubt on those rolls?

I take it you have examined the Pay & Muster Roll of the 80th Regiment? If you haven't you will not know what I'm referring to.

'Jimu
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 44

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 11:52 am

Not a case of banging on, Ian Knight has obviously done his research.
Perhaps you should look for it instead of expecting others to do it for you.

The David Jenkins situation had not been researched, that's why JW is undertaking a new publication, that will show correct research?
Back to top Go down
Chard1879

Chard1879


Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 1:03 pm

Impi. I do beleive what you say was the opinion of Norman Holme’s and Julian Whybra not Ian Knight. Either way Evans was not a RD.

Some members don't like change, or willing to admit thier wrong?
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 2:35 pm

Chard1879,

If I were wrong I would willingly admit it.

However, once again Impi refuses to answer a direct question I have put to him.

The problem is one person writes something without the research, another copies what the first person has written, and before long it becomes established as fact, on the grounds of so-and-so says this and so it must be right.

In this case it couldn't be further from the truth.

'Jimu
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 44

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 9:50 pm

kwajimu1879 wrote:
Impi,

Read what I wrote:

kwajimu1879 wrote:
Despite what has been written on this site in previous posts, and in at least two modern works, I can find no evidence that Frederick Evans could possibly have been a mounted infantryman at Isandlwana.

Considering you were one of those banging on about rolls before over Jenkins, Frederick Evans is on all three rolls, now are you casting doubt on those rolls?

I take it you have examined the Pay & Muster Roll of the 80th Regiment?  If you haven't you will not know what I'm referring to.

'Jimu

I have not examined the pay & muster rolls. If that's the direct question you refer to! Have you?
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 55
Location : Down South.

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 10:22 pm

At time of posting I thought this was common knowledge!
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 10:30 pm

Impi,

Yes I'm afraid I have, which is why I am aware that there were no members of the 2nd/24th in No. 1 Squadron, Mounted Infantry.  I have also looked at 'Baner ac Amserau Cymru' a Welsh language newspaper which is available on-line through the British Library.  On Wednesday, 16th April 1879 the newspaper reproduces a letter describing the flight from Isandula [sic] by Edward Evans.

In his booklet 'England's Sons' listed in Section M. European Survivors' Accounts & Cross-references: Primary Sources, Julian Whybra lists as No. 4. 45/726 Private Edward EVANS 2nd battalion, 3rd Regiment.

Julian cites another Welsh newspaper 'The Montgomeryshire Express' of 1st April 1879, in which Edward Evans letter home dated 3rd February 1879 was published, although Julian doesn't record whether it was published in English or Welsh.

Evans' role is also recounted in Edward McToy's 'A Brief History of the 13th Regiment (PALI) in South Africa During the Transvaal and Zulu Difficulties 1877-8-9', as he escaped from Isandlwana in company with Private Daniel Whelan of 1st/13th.

'Jimu
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 44

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 10:53 pm

Perhaps you should up-date your research capabilities. And the answer to your other question, no i don't have any faith in the rolls, to many ccoks as they same.
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 11:13 pm

Impi,

Perhaps you should do your own research instead of relying on peoples' assumptions.

Get back to me if you can counter my findings with some proven evidence.

'Jimu

Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 55
Location : Down South.

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptySun Jul 14, 2013 11:25 pm

This from Norman Holme.

"25B/953 Private Frederick Evans (Mounted Infantry), ‘H’ Company. At the time of my original research it proved impossible to identify this individual, who was one of ten soldiers named Evans then serving in the 2nd Battalion. He is named in the ‘Chard’ roll and also in Bourne’s amended roll but no mention is made of his service number or the initial of his first name. Fortunately the list signed by Major Dunbar includes a ‘Frederick Evans’ and it therefore became possible to establish the correct identity of this man. Evans is mentioned in a number of statements written by men present at the defence of Rorke’s Drift. Corporal Lyons and Private Waters refer to him, and a letter by Private Hitch (page 136 The Red Soldier by Frank Emery) contains the following: “The first news I had of what had happened at Isandlwana was when one of the mounted infantry, named Evans, came galloping up to the mission house, and said that a part of the camp across the river had been destroyed by the Zulus, that two guns had been taken as well as all the ammunition, and that the enemy were advancing in force to attack Rorke’s Drift’’. Evans himself, in a letter written in Welsh to his wife, then living at Tonypandy, South Wales, mentions that he ‘was at Rorke’s Drift’ but does not elaborate further on the action. It is unusual that a soldier who had not only survived the annihilation of his comrades at Isandlwana, but had also ridden to warn the garrison at Rorke’s Drift and then remained to assist in the defence, should make so brief a mention of his experiences. In his letter to Queen Victoria, Lieutenant Chard states, ‘A letter describing what had happened (at Isandlwana) had been sent by Bromhead, by two men of the Mounted Infantry, who had arrived fugitives from Isandlwana, to the Officer Commanding at Helpmakaar.’ Chard continues, ‘Several fugitives from the Camp arrived, and tried to impress upon us the madness of an attempt to defend the place. They proved the truth of their belief in what they said, by leaving us to our fate, and in the state of mind they were in, I think our little garrison was as well without them. As far as I know, but one of the fugitives remained with us - Lieutenant Adendorff whom I have before mentioned.’ Despite the fact that Evans was one of the men who carried the news of Isandlwana to Rorke’s Drift, as confirmed by the three eye-witnesses, there is no mention whatsoever of his participation in the defence, and in view of Lieutenant Chard’s comments, I consider that there is insufficient evidence to support the inclusion of Evans in the Rorke’s Drift roll of defenders. The fact that Evans received a copy of the Address from the Mayor of Durban does not, in any way, prove his presence at the battle."
Back to top Go down
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


Posts : 2593
Join date : 2009-04-24

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 12:04 am

There were no members of 2nd/24th attached to the MI first in the 3rd Column. I think your find that Holme's made a mistake and acknowledged that error. Impi there is more evivdence that puts Evans at RD than there is Jenkins.

Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 12:21 am

Littlehand,

I am fully aware of the late Norman Holme's comment, in my considered opinion it is an erroneous assumption.

One of the reasons I asked Impi if he had examined the Pay & Muster Rolls of 80th Regiment is because they contain the details of No. 1 Squadron, Mounted Infantry, I can assure you there are no members of the 2nd Battalion, 24th Regiment included in that document.

No.1 Squadron, Mounted Infantry was made up from men from 2nd/3rd; 1st/13th; 1st/24th & 80th Regiments, plus detached regular cavalry specialists.

No. 2 Squadron, Mounted Infantry was made up from men from 2nd/24th; 88th; 90th & 99th Regiments, plus detached regular cavalry specialists.

Norman Holme wrote:
Evans himself, in a letter written in Welsh to his wife, then living at Tonypandy, South Wales, mentions that he ‘was at Rorke’s Drift’ but does not elaborate further on the action.

Holme does not cite the source of this comment so I cannot cross-reference with the letter of Edward Evans which appeared in 'Baner ac Amerau Cymru' to see if they are one and the same.

Since Norman Holme made that comment in 'The Noble 24th', it appears a number of authors - at least three to my knowledge - have accepted his assumption that the Mounted Infantryman named Evans was Frederick Evans of the 2nd/24th without question.  However based on my own research I cannot accept his findings as fact.  If Frederick Evans had indeed been a 2nd/24th Mounted Infantryman he would have been in action at Nyezane, on 22nd January 1879.  Putting him nowhere near to Isandlwana.

As I have mentioned previously in this thread three rolls put Frederick Evans at Rorke's Drift.  Julian Whybra in 'England's Sons' has Private 25B/953 Frederick Evans as 'POSSIBLE' hospital patient.

'Jimu
Back to top Go down
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


Posts : 2593
Join date : 2009-04-24

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 12:29 am

You didn't need to do your own research. See my post above! Holmes admitted his mistake. And you will not find any 2nd/24th in the MI with no 3 Column.

It's the rolls that have confused, the issue as to who was and not at RD.
Back to top Go down
John

John


Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 61
Location : UK

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 12:43 am

Jim' if Evan's was only on one of the RD rolls, would you accept him as being an RD defender?
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 7:55 am

CTSG,

Obviously Norman Holme's admission isn't common knowledge, otherwise you would not have certain authors mentioning Frederick Evans as being a Mounted Infantryman within the Jenkins' debate.

As to not doing my own research, how else do you feel I can convince those on this forum who are dismiss my findings out of hand because of a misguided belief those same authors cannot be wrong?

John,

Which Evans are you referring to? The one who was there - Frederick 2nd/24th, or the other one who warned the post - Edward 2nd/3rd? Bearing in mind the subject of Horsefixer's original question relates to the Isandlwana survivors of 24th Regiment

'Jimu
Back to top Go down
John

John


Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 61
Location : UK

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 8:18 am

Frederick
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 9:48 pm

John,

John wrote:
Jim' if Evan's was only on one of the RD rolls, would you accept him as being an RD defender?

In answer to your query if there were compelling evidence to support it I would.

'Jimu
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 55
Location : Down South.

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 9:57 pm

Good Answer:Salute: 
Back to top Go down
Dave

Dave


Posts : 1603
Join date : 2009-09-21

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jul 15, 2013 10:27 pm

It's a personal preference. If someone can prove that an individual was at RD, then he or she should show using all available evidence how they came to that conclusion. If there is a counter argument, then that should be considered before being allowed to add that individual.
I sometimes think that Holmes is being used like Durnford, is respect that Holmes made mistakes when examining the rolls. He’s not alive to respond to that!
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7076
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 55
Location : Down South.

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyTue Jul 16, 2013 9:26 pm

Can anyone confirm, is this the Pte Evans in-question.

"From Edward Evans of Llawrglyn, near Llanidloes who escaped from Isandula to his mother and brother.

3 February 1879.

You know nothing of the horrors of war and if I was to write from now till Christmas, I could never explain half what I have seen or how I was saved. Myself and two more comrades rode our horses through the centre of their line of fire and hundreds of guns pointing at us; but I can assure you it was a ride for life. Many of our noble heroes that escaped from the hands of the enemy lost their lives in crossing the Buffalo River. Thank God for learning me to swim. My horse fell in the water and both of us went down together and both swam out again---but a very hard struggle. I had to let go my rifle and ammunition and everything I had"
Back to top Go down
John

John


Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 61
Location : UK

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyTue Jul 16, 2013 9:42 pm

Sorry gent's yet again I'm confused which Evans are we saying escaped from Isandlwana and fought at RD. And which regiment was he in?
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 44

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyTue Jul 16, 2013 10:01 pm

Jim, except my apologies, I was wrong, and you was correct.Salute 

Private Edward EVANS 2nd battalion, 3rd Regiment. Is the one that escaped from Isandlwana stopped at RD and rode on.

Private 25B./953 Frederick Evans, H Company 2nd/24th was at Rorke's Drift.
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyTue Jul 16, 2013 10:29 pm

Impi,

No worries, and your apology accepted.

It doesn't help when inaccurate statements are made by those who should know better elsewhere on the forum.

Lets hope they have posts amended, to save their blushes.

Enough said.

Regards,

'Jimu

Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3950
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jan 13, 2014 11:30 am

25B 953 Pte. Frederick Evans

Norman Holme concluded mistakenly that this H coy 2/24th man was the soldier “of the Mounted Infantry, named Evans” who escaped from Isandhlwana and rode to warn the garrison at the Drift. This was not so since Frederick Evans was never in the M.I. He has confused him with 45 726 Pte. Edward Evans 2/3rd Regt. who was in the M.I., did escape from Isandhlwana, and left an account of his escape in which he states that he rode to warn the Drift. This was referred to in an article in 1990 (and later), and acknowledged by Holme without revising his text.
Frederick Evans was not present at Isandhlwana.
The name “Pte. Evans H coy” did however appear in the ‘Chard’ Roll of Rorke’s Drift Defenders, in Bourne’s Amended Roll, and “Frederick Evans” appeared in Dunbar’s Roll by dint of which he received a copy of the Address by the Mayor of Durban. Here Holme has confused Frederick with 25B/954 Pte. Thomas Evans of H coy 2/24th who was a Defender.
Thus Holme confused Frederick Evans twice, once with Edward Evans from Isandhlwana and the second time with Thomas Evans, a RD defender. Frederick Evans is not included in the rolls of defenders in Holme’s books (and from all other works copying his research) but, on the basis of receiving the Mayor of Durban's address, he just might indeed have been present at Rorke’s Drift. If he were so, it is likely that he was a hospital patient, as were most of those 2/24th men not from B coy who were not otherwise present for other legitimate reasons. For that reason I have listed him as a 'possible defender' in England's Sons until such time as it can be proved one way or another. No new evidence has come to light and he remains a possible.
Back to top Go down
kopie




Posts : 249
Join date : 2013-06-01

24th survivors Empty
PostSubject: Re: 24th survivors   24th survivors EmptyMon Jan 13, 2014 7:15 pm

Were 953 Frederick Evans and 954 Thomas Evans related in any way? Brothers, cousins, mates?
Back to top Go down
 
24th survivors
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
»  the simple soldiers of 24 thfugitives / survivors of Isandhlwana thanks to horses of other unit.
» ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
» Isandlwana Survivor photo's

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: COLONIAL REGIMENTS WHICH SERVED IN THE ZULU WAR OF 1879-
Jump to: