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Film Zulu: (Michael Caine) Sixty. We dropped at least 60, wouldn't you say? (Gert van den Bergh) That leaves only 3,940.
 
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 Boer mercenaries...

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PostSubject: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySat Aug 03, 2013 6:13 pm

good evening or hello

During the Zulu Civil War 1883 - 1884, Zulu army were accompanied by Boer mercenaries.

During the Zulu rebellion of 1888, other mercenaries Boers still fought with the Zulus, this time against the British, some even blackening their faces with charcoal to avoid beings recognized one day ...

How is it that Cetewato not be able to buy Boers mercenaries in 1879, when it was done as easily in these wars?

Cetewayo did not attempt to approach the Boer, promising bells and whistles?

You can imagine the wonderful things they could advisors for him!

Cheers

Pas
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kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879

Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySat Aug 03, 2013 9:36 pm

Pascal,

Who is now that can say that King Cetshwayo did not have white advisers.  A certain Cornelius Vijn springs to mind.

How about Mr Calverley who arrived at Khambula with Oham's people riding on Nevill Coghill's horse?  How did he obtain that?

'Jimu
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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 6:43 am

Cornelius has Vijn help Zulu, how? This guy has a name that is not British ...

Mr Calverley who arrived at Khambula with Oham's people riding on Nevill Coghill's horse who noticed this, it has to help the Zulus, how ?

During the following Zulu conflicts, the participation of the Boer in battle with the Zulu army will be more active ...

Certainly because of their victory of 1882.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7550
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 6:55 am

Pascal
Read Cetshwayos letters from the Cape, its pretty aparent that John Dunn was also an advisor, a strong military advisor who gave a lot of information on how to fight the British

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 7:40 am

Mate

Super interesting, living among the Zulus, JD would have taken a liking to them and wanted to help ...

So he had the heart? What kind of advice he give to the Zulus?

Zulus were too anchored in their military traditions ,alas , unlike the other black peoples of south -Africa ...

When the Boers help the Zulu , for me it is legitimate, logical and therefore normal, it was their interest, nothing shocking to me when you know what they have suffered at the hands of the British, they even had the right to the first concentration camps of the XX th century, they have said they have suffered more than any other peoples in South Africa ...

Yet so few Boers help the British in 1879.

None has helped the Zulu in 1879? Unfortunately a great opportunity missed it, is not it?

We had to wait their incredible victory in 1882, so they wake up...

Cheers
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kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 7:42 am

Pascal,

Pascal wrote:
Cornelius has Vijn help Zulu, how? This guy has a name that is not British ...

Pascal best you lay off of the dagga; Cornelius Vijn - Cetshwayo's Dutchman - as in the book of the same name!


Pascal wrote:
Mr Calverley who arrived at Khambula with Oham's people riding on Nevill Coghill's horse who noticed this, it has to help the Zulus, how ?

Pascal, a white man - Mr Calverley - arrived at Wood's camp after Oham's people had turned traitor. He was riding on Nevill Coghill's horse which had obviously been looted from Isandlwana. The inference is that Calverley was present at Isandlwana and not on the British side. Put your deerstalker on and see what you can deduce of that! Joker 

Pascal wrote:
Certainly because of their victory of 1882.

What victory of 1882?

'Jimu
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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 7:58 am

Yes Jimmy Cornelius Vijn - the Cetshwayo's Dutchman -

I have often heard of this guy, but when I saw that it was not a military advised, I dropped ...

The Boers help over the Zulus against the British, after their victory in 1882, they did do before ... logic, but it was too late

Very Happy 
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kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 8:11 am

Pascal,

I think you mean 1881.

The 1st Anglo-Boer War started in 1880 was concluded in 1881.

'Jimu
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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 8:30 am

Jimmy Joker 

What ? A world-renowned historian like you You dare say that Joker ??

The Transvaal War is 1881 - 1882 ! 1880 is the Gun War against the Basotho Salute 

PTR
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 9:00 am

Pascal
from 'The Story of a Nation' GM Theale, 1894

As soon as it was known however that Mr Gladstone declined to withdraw the British Flag, the general doscontent came to a head. An attempt to seize the wagon of a farmer who refused to pay a tax brought a number of his friends to the rescue, and the officials at Potchefstroom, though supported by a strong military force were openly set at defiance.
A great meeting took place at Paardekraal, where Krugersdorp now stands and after several days discussion it was resolved to commit their cause to the Almighty God and live or die together in a struggle for independance ..........it was decided that Heidelberg should be capital until Pretoria could be recovered and there on Dingans day, the 16th December 1880 the flag of the republic was hoisted again.



Regards
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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 9:36 am

Yes Mate ,but after Michael Barthorp, in His Book - the "British Army on Campaign - 1856-1881", the Transvaal or "First" Boer War (this was not the first Anglo-Boer war, yet) officially begins in 1881 ...

The British defeat in this war is in understandable for me, it will deserve a topic in the off topic section of this forum ...

As for you, Mate ,you're a veritable living encyclopedia, what are you waiting to write a 1,000-page book on the military history of your country from 1802 to 1902?
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Boer Mercenaries .....   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 9:54 am

Hi Rascal .
This is the zulu war forum , not the Transvaal war / first boer war forum or the victorian war forum You need to study mo Shocked 
90th scratch  
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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 10:00 am

Yeah, a few are still so passionate that many subjects derailed ... But please, Marsupial, do not blame us, what others do ...

That's why I was talking about the "off topic" section, it is used to this, right? Very Happy 
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kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879

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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 10:17 am

Pascal,

If you believe one well-known author of Zulu War works - I'll spare his blushes - the Transvaal War of Independence started  on 28th November 1879, at the Battle of Bronhorstspruit, whereas in reality the short action took place on 20th December 1880.

The war was concluded when Evelyn Wood signed a peace treaty with Paul Kruger at O'Neil's Cottage on 6th March 1881, bringing the war to an end on 23rd March 1881.

So as you can see the war lasted from 20th December 1880 until 23rd March 1881,proving that you should not believe everything you read in books!

'Jimu
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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 10:27 am

You're right Jimmy , what a pity that professional historians stuff we skull so!

Okay so who to believe and what to read? The whole story is a tale told by the victors, then the survivor, the job of historians it is a trade of crooks?

At this point, the history of the Second World War is revisited by French patriots historian, pity you do not understand French, you would see this, the winners take full head ...

Should revisit fully the history of South Africa ... The bad guys are the good guys and vice versa, no ...
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 12:03 pm

Pascal
Alas mon ami its allready been done by Sir George Cory from 1652 (April 7th to be pedantic) to 1857. Unfortunatly completed after his death on the 28th April 1935. so if you are looking for some light reading there are 6 volumes for you to play with.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 12:08 pm

Lucky for you! You start the seventh volume in 1858, more you get into the most interesting period Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Boer mercenaries...   Boer mercenaries... EmptySun Aug 04, 2013 12:14 pm

In any case, thanks to Mate, all the readers who are in good faith will understand that JD, this was not the cream ...

Bravo Mate

Also for Mate hip hip hurrah! hip hip hurrah!
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