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| Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! | |
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+6Mr M. Cooper littlehand 90th ymob Kenny John Young 10 posters | Author | Message |
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John Young
Posts : 3314 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:20 am | |
| Given the debate over Isandula's recent photograph, I thought I'd throw this one into the mix. I have my own idea as to who the subject of the photograph is, but I welcome anyone else's input. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Unidentified officer, believed to be 24th Regiment.John Young CollectionThe photograph was taken by T. Cranfield, 115 Grafton St., Dublin. Thomas Cranfield's studio had the endorsement Photographer & publisher to the Queen in Ireland, his was the studio where the rich and famous went to. A number of his prints are in well-known national collections. In another place it was concluded that the photograph was of Captain Frederick Carrington, 1st/24th, but I was never happy with that conclusion. Having examined photographs of Carrington taken in South Africa circa 1877 held at Brecon, I am adamant it is not Carrington, the hair-line and ears don't match. Added to this I believe Carrington remained in South Africa after 1879, he was apparently in the U.K. by January 1883. However, the sitter in this photograph had his photograph taken prior to the 1881 Dress Regulations which added a shoulder strap (epaulette) to the Patrol Jacket. On closer examination there is also the outline of a medal ribbon on left breast. As I say I believe I know who the officer is, but I would welcome anyone else's opinion. JY |
| | | Kenny
Posts : 615 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:51 pm | |
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| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:13 pm | |
| - Kenny wrote:
- John
A young Carrington. Mister Young, Maybe Wardell? |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10909 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: Another Mystery Photograph - add a name to the face ! Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:54 am | |
| Hi John. I'll have a stab , is it Capt J.J.Harvey 2 / 24th ? . Cheers 90th. |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:26 am | |
| [quote="John Young"]Given the debate over Isandula's recent photograph, I thought I'd throw this one into the mix.
I have my own idea as to who the subject of the photograph is, but I welcome anyone else's input. . Bonjour Mister Young, For you, who is this man? regard Frédéric |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:01 pm | |
| Bonsoir Mister Young,
For me he is not:Weallens, Browne, Anstey, Daly, Degacher x2, Godwin Austen x 2, Melvill, Pulleine, Pullen, Bloomfield, Coghill, Porteous, Cavaye, Atkinson, Dyer, Bormhead x2, Griffith, White, Much, Logan, Roche, Spring, D. Williams, Mainwaring, Dunbar, Black, Chamberlin, Harvey, Heaton, Bannister, Curll, Tongue, Mostyn, Rainforth, Younghusband, Hodson, Pope, Roche, Phipps, Penn Symons, Sudgen, Dyson, Glyn, Church and Curll.
I don't think he is Upcher. You say he is not Carrington. "Isundula", we need your help, where are you?
Cheers
Frédéric |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:03 pm | |
| He's not Reginald Campbell, Brander, William Franklin and Glennie... Personnaly, i don't know who is he... Comme on dit en France, "je donne ma langue au chat"! (in English:" i give my tongue to the cat"!)
Cheers
Frédéric
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| | | John Young
Posts : 3314 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:41 pm | |
| Frédéric, How about this chap? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]John Young CollectionLike the sitter in the Dublin photograph, he was in Ireland in 1880, he had a single medal ribbon at the time. If you look at the mystery photo' he has an Imperial the remnants of a beard, his hair shorter than usual as he has been on campaign. Same jowl, as I say just my thoughts. Any Photoshop experts who can trim out his sideburns? JY |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:22 pm | |
|
Mister Young,
You are a hard man... Your man is a survivor a the zulu war. (...) in 1880, he had a single medal ribbon at the time".
Your chap is not Edward Browne. BROWNE doesn'nt looks like him and BROWNE was awarded the VC at Pinetown camp on 22/08/1879 (before 1880).
I will search information on Bromhead brother ("same jowl" / "sideburns") and Symons. A bientôt.
Frédéric
JY[/quote]
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| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:37 pm | |
| |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:55 pm | |
| Not Clements (served in South africa 1875-1881); Not Moffat (only one medal in his career); Not Symons (served in India in 1880); Not Brander (served in South Africa 1/3/1879-19/9/1879 -retired 7/7/1880) / not the "same face"; Not Connolly (only one medal in his career); Not Godfrey (only one medal in his career); Not Halliday (only one medal in his career); Not Birch (only one medal in his career); Not Halliday (only one medal in his career); Not LLyod (only one medal in his career); Not Logan (retired 5/2/1879); Not Much (only one medal in his career); Not Rainforth (return dated 3/4/1881 he is recorded as residing at Brecon ); Not Spring (only one medal in his career); Not Tongue (only one medal in his career); Not Williams John (only one medal in his career / exchanged to 1st Bn West India Regiment 25/5/1880); Not Yourstoun (only one medal in his career); Not Banister (only one medal in his career); Not Caldwell (only one medal in his career); Not Chamberlin (only one medal in his career); Not Church (only one medal in his career / retired 7/7/1880); Not Dobre (only one medal in his career); Not Dolben (only one medal in his career); Not Glennie (only one medal in his career); Not Mahoney (only one medal in his career); Not Williams herbert (only one medal in his career); Your chap is one of them: Moore-Harper, Worlledge, Trower, Supplice, Smyly, O'Donnel, Armitage, d'Aguilar, Moore, Upcher, Campbell, Heaton, Morshead, Palmes, Paton, Harvey, Godwin-Austen Alfred, Hare, Mainwaring, Dunbar, Degacher Henry, Bromhead Charles, Phipps, Curll, Roche, Sugden, Weallens, Scott-Kerr). Only 28 possibilities!!!!, Cool!!! In this list, i will research who were in Ireland in 1880. Cheers. Frédéric |
| | | Kenny
Posts : 615 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:05 am | |
| You can add a further name - Harrisson. There is also John Tigar and John Tompkins. |
| | | Mr M. Cooper
Posts : 2591 Join date : 2011-09-29 Location : Lancashire, England.
| Subject: images Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:05 am | |
| Frederic. The second picture in LH's post looks very much like Bromhead, is it his brother? |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:14 am | |
| Hmmm, bromhead looking at the cricket photo's and earlier.. . unless JY is teasing. xhosa |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:16 am | |
| Charles. |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:28 am | |
| - Mr M. Cooper wrote:
- Frederic.
The second picture in LH's post looks very much like Bromhead, is it his brother?
Martin, In thé second photo, it's Gonville Bromhead and not his brother Charles. Cheers Frédéric |
| | | Mr M. Cooper
Posts : 2591 Join date : 2011-09-29 Location : Lancashire, England.
| Subject: images Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:32 am | |
| Thanks Frederic. I thought it looked like him. |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:32 am | |
| - Kenny wrote:
- You can add a further name - Harrisson. There is also John Tigar and John Tompkins.
Thanks Kenny, Just 31 possibilities |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:39 am | |
| - Mr M. Cooper wrote:
- Thanks Frederic.
I thought it looked like him. Martin, YOU can see under thé 2nd photo, thé name Gonville. YOU can find a photo of Charles Bromhead in thé " silver" book (lan knight) p. 128. Cheers. Frédéric |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:46 am | |
| - littlehand wrote:
- [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Possible! For me, not the same eyes, not the same nose. Cheers |
| | | rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am | |
| Out of left field I know, but this is who came to my mind. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Not 24th but KRRC. Redvers Buller. Steve |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:03 am | |
| rusteze, no way ' reevers ' |
| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:05 am | |
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| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:23 pm | |
| Bonsoir Mister Young, Do your chap win an ashanti medal? Cheers Frédéric |
| | | Dave
Posts : 1603 Join date : 2009-09-21
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:32 pm | |
| - littlehand wrote:
- [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Possible! Now, the muttons have gone, I would same, one of the same! |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:18 pm | |
| yeah, chin, nose, centre parting i reckon your right. xhosa |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3314 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:55 pm | |
| Frédéric,
No I believe it to be the ribbon of the Victoria Cross.
Regards,
JY |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:08 pm | |
| - John Young wrote:
- Frédéric,
No I believe it to be the ribbon of the Victoria Cross.
Regards, L
JY Mister Young, Thanks for jour answer. Lord Gifford VC was not in the 24th in 1880. If YOU think your chap is GONVILLE Bromhead it's a Big surprise for me!!! Cheers Frédéric |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:17 pm | |
| ] From memory G. Bromhead was in Ireland in 1880(Queen VICTORIA invitation /fish) |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3314 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:31 pm | |
| Frédéric,
The penny has dropped...
JY |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:44 pm | |
| - John Young wrote:
- Frédéric,
The penny has dropped...
JY Yes... Thank YOU for this exercice, my brain is tired. Gonville...i have never thought at him... But we have don't answer to your initial question! Some members think as you that your chap is effectively G. Bromhead Have YOU got a little doubt or a Big doubt? Cheers |
| | | John Young
Posts : 3314 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 68 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:57 pm | |
| Frédéric,
No I was always happy that it was Gonville Bromhead, however, others held the belief it was Frederick Carrington. I could never see that myself, as the shape of the face didn't quite fit.
Regards,
JY
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| | | littlehand
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 56 Location : Down South.
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:15 pm | |
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| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:37 pm | |
| Not so sure now?[/quote]
The photo was taken in Ireland in 1880 (John Young) It seems that Carrington was not in Ireland in 1880. Carrington: commanded transvaal volunteers against sekukini in 1878_79, and left wing cape mounted rifles 1879-83. Source:"The historical records of the 24th Régiment (...)" By Paton, Glennie,Symons. Cheers
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| | | rusteze
Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:43 pm | |
| Can't see GB at all. Neck is too short and eyes too far apart. Why do we think he is 24th? Steve |
| | | Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:54 pm | |
| "Bromhead was posted to Gibraltar in 1880 and in August was dispatched to India where he remained until March 1881"
Need to know when in 1880 the photo was taken. |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:00 pm | |
| Bang on..Gonville was handsome. Fred looked like a camel.bless. xhosa |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:05 pm | |
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| | | impi
Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:39 pm | |
| Somewhere on the forum there is a photograph of a young Bromhead, in a photo of either a football team or cricket. That might be a good comparison. |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:00 am | |
| yes. but if you remember the famous photo of him wearing the peaked forage cap, with the 24th numeral. his face stayed constant. its him. |
| | | | Another mystery photograph - add a name to the face! | |
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