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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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Rorke's Drift A Soldier's Story with presenter Major John Thomas
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7507
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PostSubject: Daily Mail   Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 7:05 am

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Dave

Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Daily Mail   Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 9:49 am

I guess there will be a lot of maybe's in this sale. Ie the Shield may have been used in the Battle of Isandlwana. For that kind of money, I would want more than maybe's,
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Daily Mail   Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 10:04 am

Dave
 agree  exactly
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Younghusband

Younghusband

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PostSubject: Re: Daily Mail   Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 11:48 am

I wonder what provenance will come with each item - the items shown pictured look super - I hope that everyone with a knobkerrie doesn't start engraving various names of battles and year on the shaft 'thus proving where they were used in action'
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SergioD

SergioD

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PostSubject: Re: Daily Mail   Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 11:59 am

thanks the daily mail - that will just add more interest and increase the prices. Provenance is interesting - I suppose the provenance going forward will be the Sale catalogue, the previous owner - he was a well respected collector and the fact that Adrian Greaves has catalogued the items.

ultimately like in all auctions caveat emptor- there are some great pieces in this auction - and hopefully given the depth and breadth of the collection - we should be able to fill some gaps without getting crushed!!

Sergio
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Daily Mail    Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 12:38 pm

Agreed Sergio , the interest has certainly grown I'd think , things maybe a little expensive now . Ian Knight was also involved
in cataloging the items , you'd think if there were any fakes Greaves or Knight would pick them up , as it is from the Estate of a leading collector who has collected these items over many years provenance is a moot point to a degree . These items were readily available 30 yrs ago for a tenner as Ian Knight once stated , no provenance was required back then and not needed .
It's only in the last few years people have wanted provenance to stop the fraudsters , since interest in the war has risen dramatically in that period . Will be interesting to see what some of these items finish up going for  Salute .
90th
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Daily Mail   Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 4:13 pm

Don't really know what to think about prices. Artifacts in recent auctions haven't done well but books have gone through the roof. Two books currently in print fetched 65 US at Antiquarians Auction. The shops in Zulu land where selling the same for R320.00, around 30US. I do think the prices that are being bandied around are pretty high. I bought a set of old fighting sticks and a knobkerrie last week for R3000.00, around 180GBP. And they are original.
I wish I could attend the Auction live.

Cheers
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SergioD

SergioD

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PostSubject: Re: Daily Mail   Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 4:23 pm

Lucky you Frank - you are in the right place - unfortunately in leafy Hertfordshire - we dont come across many Zulu artifacts. Maybe you could set up a complimentary app selling Zulu artifacts  You need to study mo 

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24th

24th

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PostSubject: Re: Daily Mail   Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 5:47 pm

When you consider a Zulu war medal, would sell for more,it had providence. I think the buyer would have to make his own mind up, as to wether or not theses artifacts were used in the Zulu 1879. Is Ian Knight or Adrian Greaves providece enough, to meet these prices.  scratch 
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PostSubject: Re: Daily Mail   Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 6:50 pm

Don't really know what to think about prices. Artifacts in recent auctions haven't done well but books have gone through the roof.... thank you springbok, i have never been to an
auction in my life, so far! so any kind of barometer re how well/not books are
doing is of interest to me!  Salute 
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kopie



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PostSubject: Re: Daily Mail   Daily Mail EmptyFri Jan 10, 2014 7:20 pm

Provenance is key.
If the items had come from the descendants of say, Lord Chelmsford and had been known to have been family heirlooms, then the provenance would be good.
Unless these items come with provenance such as receipts and identity of previous owner(s), they are worth little more than the intrinsic value of the item.
Perhaps i will buy a few of these spears myself, I am sure my old carpentry skills would be up to carving in something like, Ulundi, 1879, and bob's your uncle - item increases in value to some gullible buyer. (I would not really do that, but there are plenty who would and will).
These items are common as brass in SA; they are almost certainly of the period they claim to be, but that is all.
Neil Aspinshaw may be able to point us to some 1879 era Martinin Henry's, but it would be soome stretch to say that MH was used during the AZW. No proof. Sorry
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