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 Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana

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Mr M. Cooper
ymob
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24th
RRAC
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RRAC




Posts : 5
Join date : 2014-01-22

Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyMon Jan 27, 2014 8:21 pm

Hello,

I am new to the forum, my interest being peaked recently by an unexpected gift of an 1875 Martini Henry.  Like many others my interest in the Zulu War goes back to seeing the movie "Zulu" in my youth.  Rorke's Drift has held my fascination for years, but now I am beginning to appreciate it as part of the larger war, especially its ties to the battle of Isandlwana.   Whereas the lay of the land and its impact on the battle at Rorke's Drift is relatively simple to grasp, I am finding Isandlwana much more challenging to visualize.  

To this end are their any particularly good or detailed maps available that you might recommend - historic or recent - which accurately depict the progression of the battle relative to the terrain?  Also, have the key features of the battlefield been precisely geolocated so that one can easily find them in Google Earth (or on site using GPS)?  Precisely locating and identifying the cairns would be a good place to start, if this has not been done already.  Ideally, I'd appreciate seeing a Google earth KML/KMZ file that would display these maps and critical locations in a user friendly format that would help advance the research through visualization of position dependent historical data.  - In other words, I'd like a nifty little plug-in for Google Earth that lets me zip between various historic and modern maps and photos that depict the battlefield and allows me to "fly through" the 3-D terrain along the lines of advance and retreat.  

I have done a little of this on my own for various historic sites as a sideline to my regular work (I work for the Texas Historical Commission) and am wondering what may have already been done along these lines with regards to Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift.  I would be happy to contribute to this myself but would like to avoid duplicating any preceding efforts. Any suggestions or comments are welcome!

Mark Cowan
(a.k.a. RRAC)
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24th

24th


Posts : 1859
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Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyMon Jan 27, 2014 10:03 pm

RRAC. Welcome to the forum, the man to talk to would be forum member Springbok. He has possibly spent most of his older years on the Battlefield. He has created an App on iTunes deplicting the movements of the Zulus and the British and colonial units, with photographic images of the various ares. I'm sure he will reply when he see's your post and idea of mapping the field. Excellent first post.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8019
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Age : 74
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyTue Jan 28, 2014 6:31 am

Hi Mark
Welcome aboard.
Download my app from iTunes. It will give you almost everything your looking for. It doesn't place the cairns in a Geo physical location though. The battlefield was mapped not to long ago by a team from, I believe , the university of Port Elizabeth. Its not available at present.
I don't believe that there is readily available a map showing the exact locations of the cairns. Most of them are pretty easily viewed on Google Earth however. Depending on your definition you tend to loose the single cairns around the Pope line of retreat. I do have a high resolution map, contoured, of the whole area but the file size is huge, far to big for me to be able to pass on Im afraid.
Your ideas sound excellent, anything I can do to help, contact me.

Cheers
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RRAC




Posts : 5
Join date : 2014-01-22

Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyTue Jan 28, 2014 8:46 pm

Springbok,

I don't have an Apple based system, only Android and PC, so I am not sure I can access your app. What is the name of your app?

Mark
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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Location : Cape Town South Africa

Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyWed Jan 29, 2014 6:27 am

Hi Mark
http://www.southafrica.net/za/en/news/entry/news-new-mobile-app-guide-to-anglo-zulu-battle-of-isandlwana-launched#.Upb8c8RmiSo
This will tell you about the app, it is available for Android.
http://www.tourismradiocityguide.com/app/isandlwana-battlefield-guide/
And this will help you download.

Cheers
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RRAC




Posts : 5
Join date : 2014-01-22

Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyWed Jan 29, 2014 9:02 pm

Springbok,

Wow, that app seems to have "covered most of the bases" as they say. Still, I would like to see a map showing the location of the cairns and any identity/unit data associated with them (if known). Surely there is a map showing this information somewhere?

Mark
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24th

24th


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Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyWed Jan 29, 2014 10:33 pm

I can see Springbok and RRAC starting a new project?  agree 
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyThu Jan 30, 2014 6:55 am

Hi Mark
Glad you enjoyed the app, there are another two on the way. I do have the map your talking about, but its a work in progress. There is a huge amount of research involved, plus a massive amount of speculation. Locating the main features was pretty simple, trudging the area for a week with a GPS. But who did what to where and with whom is a different thing altogether. The base map was the most difficult things to compile, thats taken nearly two years to do, give me another thirty and ir will be finish  Very Happy 
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyThu Jan 30, 2014 7:32 am

Mark
Look at this, it will give you an idea of some of the work already done in the field.
http://www.projectafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/eepublishers-positionIT.pdf

Cheers
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyThu Jan 30, 2014 12:33 pm

Mark
I have been given permission to post some of the data from Project Africa so over the next day or so I will try and get some digital maps formatted. These include battlefield positions and positions of all the cairns, monuments graves etc.

Cheers
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyThu Jan 30, 2014 12:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Mark at least you have managed to galvanise me into action, been meaning to do this for a while.

Cheers
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyThu Jan 30, 2014 12:52 pm

Maybe this will help the map, its a view from the top of Blacks Koppie
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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ymob

ymob


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Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyThu Jan 30, 2014 2:11 pm

Bonjour Springbok,
On the photo, Isandhlwana seems very, very far from the top of "Black Koppie"!
Please, how many meters between the mountain (of Isandhlwana) and "Black Koppie?
Between the mountain and "Black Koppie", it's the saddle or neck.
Regard

Frédéric
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


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Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyThu Jan 30, 2014 2:26 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Maybe this will help. Its actually quite deceptive, the slope starts close to the cars, just in front of the cars is a flat concrete area. That was many years ago the observation area, there is a flat area then the slope itself starts
This is a photo from a distance:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
You can see kopie slopes down then flattens of before dropping onto the saddle.

Hope that helps
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ymob

ymob


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PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyThu Jan 30, 2014 3:13 pm

Springbok,

Thank you very much for your help.
Cheers
frédéric
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RRAC




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PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyThu Jan 30, 2014 3:33 pm

Springbok,

Outstanding! I look forward to seeing what you can post. I knew such an important historic site must have already been plotted.

Mark
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PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyThu Jan 30, 2014 11:50 pm

Hi Springy.

The information and photo's you post on the forum are always well received, makes things a lot more clear for those of us who have no chance of ever getting there. All we need now is to get that App to play on a PC so that we can also follow the events of the battle, is there any news on that yet?

Again Frank, you take care mate. agree 

Cheers.

 Salute 
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90th

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PostSubject: Google - Earth - Geolocating the Cairns & Features of Isandlwana    Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyFri Jan 31, 2014 8:00 am

wonderful photo's Springy , thanks for sharing them .
90th
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PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyFri Jan 31, 2014 3:47 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Photos by Springbok. It's the best I can do! Hope it meets the expectations.
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PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyFri Jan 31, 2014 4:05 pm

Springbok, certainly the best overview of the layout of the forces yet. Excellent work.

Just have one disappointment. Where's the Rocket Battery?
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Location : Down South.

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PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyFri Jan 31, 2014 8:02 pm

Springbok, you are certainly the most knowledgeable person when it comes to the Battlefield of Isandlwana!
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8019
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 74
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptyFri Jan 31, 2014 9:23 pm

Pete thanks for the help with that, any luck on the big one?
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If you look carefully the small white points are the exact locations of the cairns. With the overlay of the camp it gives a pretty good impression of the line of retreat and starts to put some of the statements into perspective: " a body of men came out of the tents" the line of retreat going through the tents is pretty clear.
The think of the right horn coming over the saddle. or did they????????????????????
LOts to think of in those last maps.

Cheers
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8019
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 74
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana   Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 01, 2014 4:00 pm

John
Of the map to the extreme top right.
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Google Earth - Geolocating the Cairns and Features of Isandlwana
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