WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» KEYNSHAMLIGHTHORSE GRAVES WEBSITE
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyToday at 1:54 pm by rai

» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyYesterday at 7:38 pm by 1879graves

» Regimental numbers
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 12:55 pm by Frank Allewell

» Lance Corporal Robert Eaton NMP
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 11:25 am by Frank Allewell

» Isandlwana, Last Stands
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 9:13 am by Julian Whybra

» Colour of Lord Chelsmford eyes
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 8:05 am by Simonsole

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyThu Sep 17, 2020 5:30 am by John Young

» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyWed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 pm by Digger

» Colour Sgt Anthony Clark Booth, VC.
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyTue Sep 15, 2020 6:47 pm by ADMIN

» Cpl John Lyons
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 7:49 pm by Bill8183

» A Case of Mistaken Identity?
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am by John Young

» What happened next
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 10:51 am by Springbok

» Surgeon Espine Charles Ward
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyWed Sep 09, 2020 9:38 am by John Young

» 2nd Lieutenant William Lancelot James, 2nd/4th Regiment.
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 2:41 pm by ADMIN

» Explaining Amabutho in one word??
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 11:49 am by SRB1965

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyThu Sep 03, 2020 4:05 pm by Frank Allewell

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Artillery
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyWed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 pm by Catiline63

» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:46 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:32 pm by ADMIN

» Brigade Surgeon E. J. Boulton
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:02 pm by ADMIN

» Joseph Walter O’Malley Martin. Assistant Surgeon
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:52 pm by ADMIN

» Quarter-Master William London
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:32 pm by ADMIN

» Surgeon Major Henry Lamb
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:19 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant Robert Thomas Graves Lowry
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:13 pm by ADMIN

» Sgt. John Philip Archbell NNC
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:43 pm by ADMIN

» Tpr. John Ross Natal Carbineer
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:27 pm by ADMIN

» Non-Combat Casualties in Colonial and Native Units
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 11:52 am by Julian Whybra

» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» South African 1879 Zulu War medal to Corp R Starkey 57th Regiment of Foot
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 3:50 pm by 1879graves

» 2/4th Foot at Hlobane/Kambula
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 4:12 am by 90th

» England's Sons 9th edition
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyWed Aug 26, 2020 6:20 pm by Herbie

» Strange tales from Isandlwana
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySun Aug 23, 2020 4:25 pm by SRB1965

» Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 5:48 pm by Visitor

» Militaria Sale
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 5:59 pm by Frank Allewell

» Men of the 24th Regiment of Foot - Secunderabad, India 1873
AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 12:48 am by 90th

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Black as Hell, Thick as Grass
Top posters
90th
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
littlehand
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
ADMIN
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
1879graves
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
rusteze
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
John
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
John Young
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
De Passey
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
90th
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
1879graves
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
ADMIN
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
Kenny
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
SRB1965
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
Simonsole
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
rai
AZW and Booby Traps. Bar_leftAZW and Booby Traps. BarAZW and Booby Traps. Bar_right 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
james George payne martini henry 24th Franklin gardner Isandlwana smith spalding Natal Woolfryes drift william melvill Prince Durnford horse zulu Police john taylor harford Russell Mounted

 

 AZW and Booby Traps.

Go down 
AuthorMessage
waterloo50

waterloo50

Posts : 600
Join date : 2013-09-18
Location : West Country

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 2:06 pm

In Ian Knights book 'Brave Men's Blood', there is a brief mention of the engineers under Col Charles Knight Pearson leaving booby traps to prevent the Zulus from interfering with their work, There is a picture in the book which shows warriors setting off a torpedo booby trap.

I'm wondering if the torpedo trap was a more primitive version of the later Bangalore Torpedo traps.

My questions are,

Had booby traps ever been used before in the AZW?

What other types of booby traps would have been used?

How did the torpedo booby trap work?

and considering that this was the Victorian period, it strikes me that the use of booby traps, could have been viewed at the time as being an ungentleman like way to fight a war.

Kind Regards

Waterloo
Back to top Go down
Martini-Henry

Martini-Henry

Posts : 148
Join date : 2015-06-19
Age : 61
Location : Scotland

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 2:33 pm

Alls Fair etc. I think there are a number of factors here such as: no Geneva convention, no United Nations resolutions on use of mines etc, & the fact that they did not even consider the Zulus to be civilized.
Back to top Go down
waterloo50

waterloo50

Posts : 600
Join date : 2013-09-18
Location : West Country

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 3:10 pm

Martini,

Those are fair points but don't you think that a booby trap would have been seen as gaining an unfair advantage, or could it be that the AZW was a lot more gruesome and bloody than it appears. When I read of the British with their 'lifting of cattle', burning of huts, the rounding up of non combatants and possible mistreatment of prisoners along with the underhand way Bartle Frere pushed for war,  the more the AZW reminds me of Vietnam, have you heard of My Lai?  I wonder how many other things that we aren't aware of happened that could still shock today. But as you said in your post, 'All is fair....'

Cheers Waterloo
Back to top Go down
Martini-Henry

Martini-Henry

Posts : 148
Join date : 2015-06-19
Age : 61
Location : Scotland

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 3:15 pm

I think it was a genocidal war & the settlement imposed by Sir Garnet made things a helluva lot worse! The deep wounds inflicted on the Zulu people reverberate to this day. Ethnic cleansing pure & simple.
Back to top Go down
waterloo50

waterloo50

Posts : 600
Join date : 2013-09-18
Location : West Country

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 3:40 pm

Ethnic Cleansing, now they are words that carry a lot of weight, are you therefore inferring that war crimes were committed? I remember in one of the threads regarding Bartle Frere, this was hinted at but never fully discussed.

Waterloo
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 3:40 pm

Phew! Those are very strong words. Standards of treatment were different then but I don't personally think it got anywhere near genocide or ethnic cleansing. Just a short time later Cetshwayo was feted, met the Queen and was part reinstated. His kingdom was split up amongst local headmen who were more amenable to colonial control. The population was not wiped out, indeed they were crucial to exploiting the gold and diamond mines. I think the subsequent treatment of the population was a bit like what Frederic is uncovering in his thread, not necessarily motivated by humanitarian feelings but very much by commercial ones. I suspect a much unhappier event for the Zulu was the success of the Boers against the British in 1880 and the handing back to them of the Transvaal. Which is where it had all begun with the border dispute back in 1878.

Steve
Back to top Go down
waterloo50

waterloo50

Posts : 600
Join date : 2013-09-18
Location : West Country

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 3:41 pm

Hi Martini,

Would you mind offering up a brief overview of the settlement imposed by Sir Garnet.

Cheers

Waterloo
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10136
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: AZW and Booby Traps    AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 4:11 pm

During the second invasion of Zululand the British troops littered the outer laagar area with Broken Glass and other sharp objects Who could blame them after what had happened at Isandlwana and to a certain degree Intombi .
90th
Back to top Go down
Martini-Henry

Martini-Henry

Posts : 148
Join date : 2015-06-19
Age : 61
Location : Scotland

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 4:27 pm

Sorry have no access to Internet where I am. An overview can be found in the Cambridge History of the British Empire Vol 2 Page 489. Hope this helps
Back to top Go down
waterloo50

waterloo50

Posts : 600
Join date : 2013-09-18
Location : West Country

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 4:31 pm

No worries,

I will look it up, I was just being a bit lazy.

Waterloo
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10136
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: AZW and Booby Traps    AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 4:32 pm

Waterloo
Here is the description from ' Fearful Hard Times At Eshowe ' by Ian Knight , it's an excellent book , it's the only one that deals with Pearson's Column only , from the start , to the finish of the siege at Eshowe , I cant recommend it high enough to be honest . It's certainly a must have if you have any interest in Number 1 Column . The zulu had been causing havoc once the work party had left the road for the day , attempting to destroy what had been completed on the day .
From page 138
'' At the completion of the days work the road party determined to put an end to the zulu's interference with their progress , and so , under the direction of Capt Beddoes of the Natal Native Pioneers , they improvised a booby trap . The device , a landmine made from dynamite with a friction tube as a detonator , was tied to a wooden stake planted in the ground .The dynamite was covered by some planks of wood . To ensure that no unwary soldier tampered with it , a board was attached to the top on which was painted the word TORPEDO . Even before the work party reached the fort they heard a tremendous explosion behind them as the mine detonated . The zulu's had pulled up the stake and set off the charge ; some must invariably have been killed , and the rest could be seen fleeing in terror in all directions . It was the last time the zulu's attempted to interfere with the road party's works '' .
90th You need to study mo
Back to top Go down
Martini-Henry

Martini-Henry

Posts : 148
Join date : 2015-06-19
Age : 61
Location : Scotland

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 4:40 pm

Yes probably Genocide is too strong a word. There was an economic motive - cheap labour for the mines etc. A proud nation was broken up into little pieces in the interest of progress & civilization. Finally the prospect of a powerful autonomous Zululand was too fearful to be allowed to exist.
Back to top Go down
Martini-Henry

Martini-Henry

Posts : 148
Join date : 2015-06-19
Age : 61
Location : Scotland

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 4:40 pm

Yes probably Genocide is too strong a word. There was an economic motive - cheap labour for the mines etc. A proud nation was broken up into little pieces in the interest of progress & civilization. Finally the prospect of a powerful autonomous Zululand was too fearful to be allowed to exist.
Back to top Go down
waterloo50

waterloo50

Posts : 600
Join date : 2013-09-18
Location : West Country

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 4:41 pm

90th

That's brilliant, I was wondering what the Torpedo Booby trap was, good job none of the Zulus could read English. I imagine that the psychological effect would have had a knock on effect. In the picture that I was looking at there is a piece of wood with the word Torpedo written on it, I wondered why that was in the drawing.

Many Thanks for your help

Waterloo
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10136
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: AZW and Booby Traps    AZW and Booby Traps. EmptyFri Jul 24, 2015 4:49 pm

Waterloo happy to try and help now I'm back on Terra Firma !
90th You need to study mo
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




AZW and Booby Traps. Empty
PostSubject: Re: AZW and Booby Traps.   AZW and Booby Traps. Empty

Back to top Go down
 
AZW and Booby Traps.
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: