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 The Battle of Isandlwana

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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7741
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Location : Cape Town South Africa

The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 10:24 am

Martin
Should have been a telephoto shot.......................yes your nit picking Sad

Will sort out and get the right shot for Pete, my fault not his.

Cheers
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
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Location : Lancashire, England.

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PostSubject: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptySun Jun 03, 2012 10:40 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: Me! nit picking?? Surely not, Shocked

Your pictures have been a great help my friend, especially to those of us who have not got much chance of ever getting to these places to have a look round and pay our respects to all of the fallen.

Well done, and many thanks.

Cheers buddy.

Martin. Salute
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ADMIN

ADMIN

Posts : 4175
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Age : 62
Location : KENT

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Jun 18, 2012 2:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
These are two photos that really bring home the extent of the battlefield.
The first photo is taken in approximatly the position Lt Scott first held at
the end of the firing line. The conical koppie is on the immediate left so
Im standing in the gap between the ridge and the koppie.The firing line went
from close to here right the way back to the mountain in the distance. The
second photo I have turned through 180degrees and we looking at the notch
with itusi hill, this the notch that Russell tried to use to get access onto
the ridge with the rocket b attery. In the middle of the shot is a pole
carrying the power cables. approx the line of that pole is where the rocket
battery met their fate. the hill on the right is itusi and to the right of
that begins the Quabe Valley that Durnford rode along.
Hope these shots put a touch of perspective to the battlefield

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This is the route that durnford took, from the small cluster of houses to
the left as you look of the conical koppie to the mouth of the Quabe valley.
The donga doesn't look that impressive until I tell you that my 4x4 is
parked in it right in front of the camera position
Photos and Text By Springbok.
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Dave

Dave

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Jun 18, 2012 3:59 pm

Fire In The Sky
The Weather at Isandlwana 22nd Jan 1879

http://www.anglozuluwar.com/content/files/2011051707452030000100/Isandlwana%20weather%20article.pdf
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: The Battle Of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyTue Jun 19, 2012 6:06 am

Hi Springbok.
Great photo's my friend - any update on the possibility of the book eventuating ? . I think for those that havent or wont get there it will be a ' must have ' . It will be interesting to get some feed back from the forum members .
Cheers 90th. You need to study mo
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyTue Jun 19, 2012 9:39 am

It will happen, a little more research required first. The concept itself will be kept under wraps for a while though.

Cheers Mate
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John

John

Posts : 2558
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Age : 58
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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyTue Jun 19, 2012 11:57 pm

I'm hoping it will be  "PICTORIAL CATALOGUE" of the Battle of Isandlwana. Step by step guilde. The British layout of the camp. Where the pickets were located on the night of the 21st to the morning of the 22nd. The route Chelmsford took when he departed. The route Raw took when he discovered the Army.

From the Zulu side.

The possible routes that used to get to the valley. The view of Isandlwana from the valley. The route they were sent along when the attack happened. Where they entered the camp.

Photos of the various last stands.

Ending with the deaths of Melville and Coghill near the river. Salute
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyWed Jun 20, 2012 6:50 pm

Hi springy.

Yet more great pictures, many thanks mate, brilliant. Salute

With the knowledge that you have in the AZW and also of these battlefield areas, I for one can't wait for the publication of the book, it should be a great read, and I won't be surprised if it's a best seller.

Good luck with it my friend, and again, thanks for the pictures.

Cheers mate. Salute
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littlehand

littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyWed Jun 20, 2012 6:53 pm

95% Discount for forum members.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyWed Jun 20, 2012 6:54 pm

Littlehand

But of course. Salute
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyWed Jun 20, 2012 6:59 pm

Nice one LH. :lol:

And springers AGREES!!! Shocked

Magic, :lol:

Salute
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Saul David 1879



Posts : 527
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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyFri Jun 22, 2012 10:42 pm

Another book on Isandlwana. Just what the AZW needs. You need to study mo
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptySat Jun 23, 2012 11:40 am

Wow effusive support !
Having seen some of the rubbish out there, its just possible a fresh take would be a good thing.
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptySat Jun 23, 2012 1:49 pm

Hi springbok
I am very interesting by your analys of thé battle of isandlwana.
When can i purchase a copy of your book?
Cheers
Ymob
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http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptySun Jun 24, 2012 9:35 am

YMOB
Your to kind, any thoughts I have on isandlawana are purely amateur dabbling. I am writing a book, hopefully it will be published before the end of the year. Its not a conventional book giving another breakdown of the battle.. just something different.

Regards
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ADMIN

ADMIN

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptySun Jun 24, 2012 11:39 am

Moved to this thread,originally post by Neil Aspinshaw

The view from Mkwene Hill to the Valley of Ngwebeni, where the vadettes were posted, and where Raws men were retreating. Not a great deal of hidden ground?.

Thsi view is approx three-four miles.
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ADMIN

ADMIN

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptySun Jun 24, 2012 11:41 am

Move to this thread, originally posted by Springbok.

Faintly on the right hand side top there is a thin line of trees, just to the left another line. Both of those ridges have reverse slopes Neil. Standing in them and walking for some distance East West axis Mkwene is invisible.

Regards
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90th

90th

Posts : 10263
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PostSubject: The Battle Of Isandlwana    The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptySat Jul 07, 2012 12:16 am

Hi All .
While attempting to find some more evidence ( Not only Brickhill's ) of zulu's coming to the camp under a flag of truce , found this gem which I doubt has been posted before , unfortunately it doesnt mention surrendering zulu's but is very interesting ,
the following is an extract I've taken from one of Major Francis Clery's Letters , he's telling Maj - Gen Sir Archibald Alison two causes in his mind which precipitated the failure of the present campaign , the first I'll only gloss over as its the second one that I found most interesting !.

Helpmakaar Natal 18 March 1879
My Dear Sir Archibald ,
...Well , to my mind , the first cause of our present failure has been the faulty - I should almost say utterly bad - Plan of campaign. Now here is the interesting part .................

'' To come then to the second chief cause ; I think the General and his staff wholly underrated the enemy . Possibly their experience of the Kafirs in the Colony ( Cape ) was the cause of this . They did not appear to believe in the possibility of a real attack by the zulus . It was so much doubted that the zulus would really come on , that orders were issued to the Artillery that they were on no account to open fire at a distance greater than 600 yds , for fear of frightening the enemy and deterring them from coming on or inducing them to run away . I have heard Crealock myself laying stress upon this in one of the small affairs ''. ( 6 ) Footnote , refers to Sihayo's Kraal on the 12th Jan . The letter goes on how they thought the camp or any of the forces on the plain would never be attacked . This would certainly explain why there wasnt a huge amount of artillery rounds expended !. I often wondered why the Artillery wasnt firing much earlier as the zulu were massing or gathering for their attack on the camp . I suppose I put it down to there being dead ground and the zulu army couldnt be seen , but if they were massing on the heights of the plateau etc they should have certainly been shelled in my mind . Once again the lack of awareness and deadly complacency found their mark .
Cheers 90th. You need to study mo
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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

Posts : 1189
Join date : 2015-11-24

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyFri May 27, 2016 5:39 pm

Sorry if this has been posted before.. but i reckon this is as
close as we will get to the truth of the battle, anyhow, worth
posting just to hear David Rattray again.

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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyFri May 27, 2016 5:41 pm

copywrite..Fair use.

Channel 4 (Production sponsor)
Darlow Smithson (Production company)
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2448
Join date : 2011-09-12

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 5:28 pm

Just a note to members to avoid writing (please) and certainly not to accept phrases such as "It has been well established that (Pulleine was not the man for the Job)" as posted earlier.
There was an excellent university course I attended yonks ago on recognition of 'persuader language' which might be met in history books - words/phrases designed to inculcate belief, persuade you to a way of thinking, intimidate, all without your realizing it.  Phrases like "It is true to say that...","It goes without saying...", "It is self-evident that...", "It cannot be denied that...","Of course...", "Naturally...", etc.  
"It has been well-established that..." falls into this category.  Ever since, as soon as I come across such words, alarm bells start ringing, and my brain tells me, 'this writer has no hard evidence, he is guessing, he doesn't know what he's talking about, he hasn't done the research, being right is more important than finding the truth', and in this case 'it is certainly not well-established'.  Cave savidicum!
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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 7:08 pm

Cave savidicum.. really Julian.. does that mean ' hot air '.
google translate was woeful.
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 8:09 pm

Beware the silver-tongued.
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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Jul 04, 2016 9:15 pm

Thanks Julian..i don't like ' i statements ' much either..hope
your hols refreshed.
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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2016 2:54 pm

Just for the sake of it, i like this image of the closing stages.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2016 2:59 pm

Shame all those poor Welshmen !
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: The Battle Of Isandlwana    The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2016 3:05 pm

Hi Les
'' At Bay '' I have it framed on the wall , one of my favourites as well .
90th agree
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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2016 6:29 pm

Thanks Gary.. i have developed a ' trick ' in photoshop where i
can enlarge a small image and make it bigger without losing to
much definition. it works in most cases. Frank, your a bad man Very Happy
ive not heard from Mr M for a while. cheers xhosa
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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Aug 29, 2016 9:27 pm

The original engraving, by Godefroy Durand, appeared in the Graphic on 15 March 1879, just six weeks after the battle. Durand was not in South Africa and it was very early days after Isandhlwana. I think it is impressive that he can produce such an iconic image, entirely from his imagination and based on what was, at that time, very limited detailed reporting.
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Steve
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90th

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PostSubject: The Battle Of Isandlwana    The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyTue Aug 30, 2016 3:31 am

Hi Xhosa
I did something similar , I got a friend to photograph it with a decent camera , sent me the pic via email , then had it blown up and it didn't lose any definition , I'm very happy with it . Very Happy Salute agree
Steve
Yes I agree , certainly an Iconic image , and more than likely as it was at the end Shocked
90th
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyTue Aug 30, 2016 11:07 am

Frank Allewell wrote:
Shame all those poor Welshmen !

Quoted in the « Gloucester Citizen », 22 /12/ 1950

« It's a common error to say that the SWB were in the fighting at Rorke's drift and Isandhlwana.
I think, if the records were looked up the Regiment was the 2nd Battalion of the Warwickshire Regiment and did not become the SWB until a later date ».

I wonder how old was Mr M in 1950 ?????
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http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyTue Aug 30, 2016 11:51 am

And Les says im bad? Very Happy Shocked
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyTue Aug 30, 2016 12:48 pm

At least you're not mad and dangerous to know as well.
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xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyTue Aug 30, 2016 3:22 pm

I would not have considered you any of those things
Julian! tad harsh on yourself there.. Very Happy
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyTue Aug 30, 2016 4:04 pm

I have my moments...
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xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyTue Aug 30, 2016 7:47 pm

Very Happy
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Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyWed Aug 31, 2016 8:06 pm

ymob wrote:
Frank Allewell wrote:
Shame all those poor Welshmen !

Quoted in the « Gloucester Citizen », 22 /12/ 1950

« It's a common error to say that the SWB were in the fighting at Rorke's drift and Isandhlwana.
I think, if the records were looked up the Regiment was the 2nd Battalion of the Warwickshire Regiment and did not become the SWB until a later date ».

I wonder how old was Mr M in 1950 ?????

Don't worry Lads I'm still here, and yes, I was around in 1950, but I never lived in Gloucester, so I didn't write that, but whoever wrote it was right, except that they should have said the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment and not the Warwickshire Regiment. However, it does show that someone else cared about stopping the myth that the regiment was welsh and that it was called the swb, and that was 14 years before Baker's blatant corruption about the regiment being welsh. What a shame that there are not more people like this person, who at least did try to put things right and stop all the 'welsh' and ' swb' nonsense.
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xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptySun Nov 26, 2017 9:16 pm

The Battle of Isandlwana Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:57 pm .... from John
I'm hoping it will be "PICTORIAL CATALOGUE" of the Battle of Isandlwana. Step by step guilde. The British layout of the camp.

I wonder if copies of this print are still available, sound's like PQ had a few knocking about.

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I used John's ref, as a guide where to place the images. it really is a cracking print on heavyweight
art paper, look's great framed up.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Nov 27, 2017 4:27 am

There are still copies to be had at the iSandlwana gift shop and the Rorkes Drift Gift Shop. I last saw them about six months ago.
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90th

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PostSubject: The Battle Of Isandlwana    The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Dec 11, 2017 10:03 am

Hi Les
Isandlwana Lodge has them for sale , well they did in May .
Cheers
90th
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xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: The Battle of Isandlwana   The Battle of Isandlwana - Page 5 EmptyMon Dec 11, 2017 12:26 pm

Glad to see you back Gary. Very Happy i wonder if there from the original
print run signed by the artist.. it's stated that the run was one
thousand so i guess there is a few still knocking about. can't even
remember where i got mine from. i don't keep record's of purchases
book's or anything the receipt's go straight in the bin. cheer's mate.
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