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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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  Isandlwana cultural centre

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Brett Hendey

Brett Hendey

Posts : 243
Join date : 2010-12-02
Location : Kloof, KZN

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyThu Nov 08, 2018 1:57 pm

Frank
Reading your suggestions for the Isandlwana Cultural Centre brought to mind a similar development a lot closer to your Cape Town home. It is the West Coast Fossil Park near Langebaan, where a Lotto-funded Visitor's Centre was recently opened. It is not a battlefield that is the attraction being preserved, but the remains of fossiliferous deposits exposed in an abandoned phosphate mine. It could be a 'outing with a difference' for you, and it might provide you with some ammunition to press your earlier suggestions.
Regards
Brett


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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2311
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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyThu Nov 08, 2018 2:21 pm

rusteze
Well, possibly I might have let my Angst show too much, but the site means a lot to me and the thought of its alteration for the worse is very distressing.
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyThu Nov 08, 2018 4:03 pm

Julian
I understand completely.
Steve
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2262
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyThu Nov 08, 2018 4:48 pm

I suppose that one of the questions raised is how many jobs would be created for the people who live in the area...
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyThu Nov 08, 2018 5:18 pm

The abiding memory of Newfoundland Park is the great Caribou atop a rock looking out across the Somme battlefield. I once addressed a large gathering of Canadian security people in Ottawa about the various threats we then faced in the UK. They were plainly closely engaged with whatever it was I was saying and then broke out into rapturous applause at the end - not something I was particularly used too I have to say! Afterwards a colleague in the audience told me that all the time I was speaking a large screen behind me carried pictures of Canada Geese sweeping over the lakes and forests. Emotional lot the Canadians.

Steve
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2262
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Location : France

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyFri Nov 09, 2018 5:13 pm

Bonjour Frank,
Just for information:
"In March 1880 Lieutenant M. O’Connell of the 60th Rifles was sent to iSandlwana accompanied by a detachment of the Natal mounted Police. O’Connell found that on the slopes which drained into the dongas many graves had become disturbed. His methods in redress were nothing if not practical;

Each man was provided with a sack to carry any bones he might find, and every third or fourth man had a spade or pick to dig up the bones in those places where they had not been properly buried, and where the ground did not seem to be such as to make the recovering of old graves desirable. I extended my men in a line across the place where Lord Chelmsford’s camp had been, and moved them slowly backwards and forwards. They put all the uncovered bones they could find into the sacks, and renewed the stones and earth over the graves that required it. As soon as three or four sacks of bones had been collected in this way, I caused them to be carried to [a specified spot] and there buried them in two large deep graves…"
Source: Ian Knight. "Companion to the AZW", Burying the dead

According to IK's hypothesis, it's possible  in the months and years after June 1879, that deep graves were dug on the battlefield.
Amitié
Fred
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barry

barry

Posts : 921
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Location : Algoa Bay

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PostSubject: Reburials    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyFri Nov 09, 2018 5:46 pm

Hi Fred,

…… and indeed they were. Their location however had no nexis with any other event.

regards

barry
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2262
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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyFri Nov 09, 2018 6:06 pm

Bonsoir Barry,
I am sorry, I would have written "according to Lieutenant O'Connell"....
Regards.
Fred
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon Nov 26, 2018 8:27 pm

Latest Google Earth image shows the Cultural Centre excavations - image quality is improving.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steve
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7487
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 20, 2019 11:09 am

A report back from iSandlwana.
I was on the battlefield over the weekend and am happy to report that the proposed building site is effectivly abandoned. Most of the fencing surrounding the site has been 'recycled' as has the blue screen. the two office containers have been stripped of anything useful and the whole area is one of 'given up and gone home. The much touted rememberance area is now completely overgrown and a lot of the brick paving has been more gainfully employed elsewhere, in fact a house below the rocky ridge seems to have a rather nice patio.
In general the battlefield itself is dissapointingly shabby. The cairns need a fresh coat of whitewash and the invasive bush is impacting on some cairns on the saddle. Housing is growing at a brisk pace and an area to the south of the Malabamkosi ridge is being developed pretty fast, with the track/road extended its now possible to drive to a point where Mpethi hill is very visible as is the gorge below fugitives drift.
We held a moonlight vigil on the saddle after walking up through a gap in the fence from Durnfords Donga. A full moon and cloudless sky threw a really scary blue glow over the saddle and standing in the colonial cemetary was to say the least very unnerving. So with hair doing a tad more than stand on end we beat a retreat back to the bar of the RD HOTEL.
I have some interesting new photos I will post over the next few days.
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 804
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyTue May 21, 2019 5:51 am

Hi Frank,

Good news from one aspect but is there a plan for restoration and repair of the battlefield, though I don't suppose you are privy to the SA Government plans.

More importantly will they be back when a few more quid is raised/found/redirected?

Ta

Sime
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyTue May 21, 2019 5:57 am

Lap of the Gods stuff Simon. There is so much happening in the area, politically and socially at present. I would say that its very much on the back burner, the initial enthusiasm/panic was for the 140th. possibly it may surface again for the 150th
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2094
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Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyWed May 22, 2019 7:51 am

Frank,

Is the excavated soil still in place, or have the holes been filled?

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyWed May 22, 2019 8:42 am

Still piled up John.
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2094
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Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyWed May 22, 2019 9:10 am

Cheers Frank,

Best get the boys in and reclaim the battlefield!

Let The Mountain Be Their Monument...

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyWed May 22, 2019 9:17 am

The piles are slowly collapsing John a few good rains and status quo will be established. Did you know that Foy Vermark had died? Another of the old timers gone. And I believe Rob Caskie isnt doing to well after his Motorbike spill.
Some more gossip, Andrew Rattray has moved down to Plettenburg Bay, little brother Doug is now in charge.

cheers
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2094
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Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyWed May 22, 2019 9:41 am

Frank,

I knew about the reshuffle at FDL.

But I wasn’t aware about the news regarding Foy or Rob.

Thanks for the update.

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyThu May 23, 2019 7:33 am

Sorry John forgot to mention, Pam Mcfadden is set to leave Talana fairly soon. The replacement has been chosen. Sad Don\'t agree Don\'t agree Don\'t agree Don\'t agree
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2094
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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyThu May 23, 2019 8:04 am

Frank,

Such pity, I saw Pam back in January, and we realised it was near thirty years since we had first met.

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7487
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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyThu May 23, 2019 10:53 am

The incumbent is a totally different kettle of fish John, it seems very little interest in the actual battle sites at all. Potentially the future is going to be an uphill battle. As we know quite often the only thing that stood in between developers and the battlefields was Pam.
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Paul Lamberth



Posts : 14
Join date : 2015-08-07

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptySun May 26, 2019 1:53 pm

I would not right the project off as Umzinyathi District Municipality has included it in their 19/20 draft budget

The project includes construction of the following:
• Zulu Cultural village
• War memorial wall
• Inkosi Cetshwayo statue
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptySun May 26, 2019 3:57 pm

Paul,

Is the draft budget available online?

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptySun May 26, 2019 7:43 pm

Strange they have included for a Cetswayo statue when the the plans call for Shaka ?
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptySun May 26, 2019 7:48 pm

Frank,

As far as I was aware it has always going to be King Cetshwayo, the King Shaka statue in the concept art was just a reference.

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 4:00 am

Morning John
Ive never seen Cetshwayo mentioned but always willing to learn.
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2094
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Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 4:24 am

Good morning Frank,

I was asked to source appropriate photographs and engravings of King Cetshwayo from the period to assist in the design.

The “committee” were leaning towards a cloaked figure not too dissimilar to the one at The Castle, Cape Town.

Any chance you could send me your recent photographs of site? I am attempting to show an interested party the current state of play.

Gary took some yesterday, but he has posted them on Facebook and I am not a member..

Thanks in anticipation.

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 4:49 am

Hi John
As long as its a better statue than that abortion at the Ulundi centre. Sorry didnt bother taking any photos this time around.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 4:52 am

John are we now going for a fully local funded scheme as opposed to the Arts and Cultural model?
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 6:11 am

Frank,

There was a meeting yesterday at Ulundi, as yet I haven’t received details of the outcome.

I have a meeting on Wednesday at the High Commission to discuss matters, that’s why I’m looking for photographic evidence.

The Royal Welsh are also interested to see the current state of the Memorial Garden.

JY
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Paul Lamberth



Posts : 14
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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 7:18 am

follow link as requested

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 7:49 am

Paul,

Thanks for that.

Personally, I believe that £600,000 could be better spent elsewhere in the municipality.

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 10:32 am

Thanks Paul
John it looks like an R11 000 000.00 allocation. The good thing on it being a municipal driven issue is:
a) Could never go ahead
b) Out of the reach of Arts and Culture.
Its good to see there is strong motivation to upgrade Tourism.

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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2094
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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 10:48 am

Frank,

We met with the Municipality’s Mayor in Dundee back in January.

I actually know his family and their antecedence. They were at iSandlwana - in the N.N.C., recruited from the Msinga Magistracy.

JY
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7487
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 11:01 am

Looked for you at the Presidents inauguration on the weekend? Very Happy Couldnt believe it 21guns fired of and not one of the sods could hit Cyril ! Most dissapointed.
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2094
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyMon May 27, 2019 11:27 am

Frank,

You’ve got the wrong political allegiance there!

A certain female we both know grimaces at the very mention of Cyril’s name, try it the next time you see her!  Joker Joker Joker

JY
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2262
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyTue May 28, 2019 2:52 pm

Bonjour à tous,

Jus for information:
Fortunately, the departure of Madame Pam McFadden from the Talana Museum is a false rumour. When she eventually retires she will let everyone know.

Cordialement
Frédéric Bomy
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http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
90th

90th

Posts : 10077
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Isandlwana Cultural Centre     Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyWed May 29, 2019 4:43 am

Hi All
I was talking to Pam Mac last week when I called into have some files copied , there's no mention of her leaving or retiring , she knows how important it is that she stays , she's known Paul Naish for ever , if there was any inkling she was leaving... I'm positive it would've been mentioned amidst all the doom and gloom we discussed .
90th
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7487
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyWed May 29, 2019 5:17 am

Curious!
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2094
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana cultural centre    Isandlwana cultural centre - Page 5 EmptyWed May 29, 2019 5:20 am

Fake News... Fake News.

A deliberate ploy to spread false intelligence.
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