WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Colonialism: A Moral Legacy
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyYesterday at 5:25 pm by Julian Whybra

» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyYesterday at 11:37 am by lydenburg

» Writing advice
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash

» Sergeant W E Warren RA - Veteran
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 9:32 pm by Matthew Turl

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra

» 100,000 posts!
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» British rations and morale
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra

» Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private Hagan
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN

» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» William J Hoare 24th Regiment??
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash

» Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young

» Philip Price
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra

» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:47 am by Julian Whybra

» About the second invasion
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Feb 20, 2024 9:14 pm by 90th

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

» Watford band boys killed at iSandlwana
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Feb 16, 2024 8:26 am by Julian Whybra

» Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 am by 90th

» Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 9:55 pm by ADMIN

» The anniversary of 22nd January in 2024
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 3:51 pm by luke1997

» What was the distance?
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 8:46 am by Stefaan

» Mrs Henry Hook
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Feb 06, 2024 3:14 pm by Kenny

» "With 6 good riflemen"
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Feb 05, 2024 2:30 pm by Mr M. Cooper

» What was G company supposed to do?
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySun Feb 04, 2024 9:31 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private 1445 Charles Meates 17th Lancers and his brother William Wylie
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 10:07 pm by John Young

» South Africa Medal With Clasp To Pvt J. Salter 3/60th
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 3:12 pm by Foody

» Weatherleys Border Horse Flag
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Feb 01, 2024 9:40 pm by Herbie

» Edward Plantagenet Kemeys-Tynte
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:06 pm by Edjg

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
March 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Barjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Dash
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Barjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Hobbes
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Barjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Bill8183
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Barjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
SRB1965
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Barjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
jgregory
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Barjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
John Young
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Barjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
ADMIN
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Barjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
1879graves
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Barjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
Matthew Turl
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_leftjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Barjohn - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Bar_right 
New topics
» Colonialism: A Moral Legacy
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyYesterday at 5:25 pm by Julian Whybra

» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyYesterday at 11:37 am by lydenburg

» Writing advice
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 8:57 pm by Hobbes

» 100,000 posts!
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySun Mar 17, 2024 11:14 am by ADMIN

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 8:27 pm by Rob Herrick

» British rations and morale
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:24 pm by Hobbes

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyFri Feb 23, 2024 2:23 am by peterfarrell

» About the second invasion
john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 9:53 pm by Hobbes

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane

Go down 
2 posters
AuthorMessage
steve.333




Posts : 40
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Jul 25, 2018 12:47 am

Re Cpl J Archer of the Border Horse, Hlobane survivor discussed in this topic: https://www.1879zuluwar.com/t1910p200-isandlwana-surviviors#89390

One thing troubles me ...
My gg uncle John W W Archer is mentioned on the Boer War rolls of 3 units - Ashburners Light Horse, Western Light Horse and Field Intell Dept.
His rank in these units was Tpr, Tpr, Guide respectively.

So ... if he was a corporal in the Border Horse in 1879 and 20 years later joined Ashburner's, would he keep his rank or start from the bottom again?

On the Western Light Horse Boer War rolls there are two John W Archers (on the same page), one a Tpr the other a SSM. Very confusing!
So naturally the question arises - which John Archer took part in Hlobane - my relative or the other John W?

Would appreciate any views on this.

Steve

Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1199
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyWed Jul 25, 2018 6:03 am

steve.333 wrote:


So ... if he was a corporal in the Border Horse in 1879 and 20 years later joined Ashburner's, would he keep his rank or start from the bottom again?


I would say given the time that elapsed and the fact he was a non commissioned officer - he would have to start from scratch (unless he was head hunted?)

Much could have happened to his character in the intervening years.......obviously if he still had some ability. his former rank may have sped up promotion.

Had he transferred to Ashburners, I could see him retaining his rank.

Cheers

Sime

Back to top Go down
steve.333




Posts : 40
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyThu Jul 26, 2018 6:42 am

Thanks for that Sime. I think you are right. A lot can happen in 20 years. And these colonial units were created quickly as the situation required. Once the fighting was over, it would have been civilian life as usual for most of the men.
Back to top Go down
steve.333




Posts : 40
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptySun Aug 05, 2018 10:32 pm

I did read somewhere that these colonial units where quite democratically organized and that officers particularly were often voted in by the men, form among the NCOs
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1199
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Aug 06, 2018 9:00 am

Hi,

I too have read that colonial/militia units elected their officers - there was a big yahoo when Chelmsford replaced Dartnell as CO of the mounted elements of the Centre Column (with Russell, maybe?) and the units were not happy (Colonial officers were not allowed to command regulars) and a compromise had to be settled on, because 'Brexit' loomed

I also believe that many of the smaller units or individuals within them, could opt not to campaign outside their own locality - and that they were lured into Zululand by the idea of farmland & bounty.....most of which never came to fruition.

You will probably find that previous military commission and or social standing (magistrates etc) went a long way to securing the mandate for command. If you think about it, the Zulu War would have been a great adventure for these 'weekend warriors' - perhaps the only chance they had to fire their carbines in anger.....

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
steve.333




Posts : 40
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyMon Aug 06, 2018 10:50 pm

There probably would have been some weekend warriors, but I imagine many were pretty serious about protecting their hard won interests in the area.

I like the idea that some of them had the hope that they would get land and bounty in Zululand. Being colonials, the idea of moving to a new place with less rules restrictions was in their blood!

There was another factor that contributed to who was in the unit and with what rank - family connections. There were very few people of European origin in those remote areas, so families inter-married and those bonds were strong - they depended on each other for survival!
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1199
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Aug 07, 2018 8:30 am

Hi Steve,

When I said 'weekend warriors' it was not meant to be derogatory and they would have been very serious about their role.

However that said, I wonder how many 'full musters' the BBG, or Newcastle Mtd Rifles or Natal Hussars etc attended in a year - obviously in times of heightened tension the units may have mustered more - the BBG was formed in 1873 - probably out of concern during Langalibalele's Rebellion.

Cheers

Sime


Back to top Go down
steve.333




Posts : 40
Join date : 2018-05-15
Location : New Zealand

john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane Empty
PostSubject: Re: John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane   john - John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane EmptyTue Aug 07, 2018 10:22 pm

Hi Sime - no explanation needed on your part.

There is an interesting discussion of the Colonial Unit here http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol045sm.html

My synopsis:

Natal units vs Transvaal/Cape units
differences:
- in Natal, commando service was legally applicable but rarely enforced, and was much disliked
- the residents preferred organized, uniformed, mounted units patterned on British Yeomanry regiments
- in Transvaal and Cape, the Commando system was a characteristic of the population
- the loosely organized highly individualistic Boer Commando represented a rurally orientated society
- these Commando units had no identical counterparts in Natal
- the more urbanized communities had stronger group loyalties so prefered an organized military approach
- typical Natal settler, a white man in a mass of natives, never liked the use of non-European levies as in the Cape
- when Britain refused to provide Imperial reinforcements, a native contingent became necessary and the Governor consented

similarities
- democratic character - officers were elected by the regiment, usually from among the NCOs
- all found their own horses, saddlery and uniforms
- neither were amenable to an institution which demanded a rigid hierarchy of command and obedience
- the Colonial volunteers and irregular mounted units were largely mushroom creations in response to the war
Back to top Go down
 
John Archer, Border Horse, Hlobane
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Corporal Archer and Trooper Sawyer Weatherly's Border Horse
» Trpr CF Adams NMP / Trpr JC Mann Border Horse/ Trpr. JW Robson Buffalo Border Guard
» Trooper J Walsh, Border Horse

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: ZULU WAR BATTLES-
Jump to: