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Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
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 Ian Knight's Zulu Rising

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Hamilton-Browne



Posts : 2
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PostSubject: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyTue Sep 04, 2018 11:12 pm

Hi everyone,

I am a long time reader of this forum, but I have not posted anything until now. I have had an interest in the AZW since childhood (watching 'Zulu' and 'Zulu Dawn', unsurprisingly, got me hooked). I have only recently begun to research the history of the war in earnest, however, and I started with Ian Knight's 'Zulu Rising', hence the title of this thread.

I have a few questions to ask - apologies if any of these have been covered before:

1. 'Zulu Rising' appears to contain footnote numbers but no footnotes or endnotes. Does anyone know what happened to them? Is there a version of the book which actually contains the references used by Ian Knight?
2. What would people recommend I read next? I am tempted by Snook's 'How can men die better?' because I gather it gives a more 'blow-by-blow' account of the battle and the tactics used.
3. Is there a printed collection/compendium of eye-witness accounts? Or would I have to chase up each account individually?
4. How well accepted are Ian Knight's theories regarding the collapse of the British line? In Zulu Rising, he appears to conclude that the pivotal moment in the battle was the UmBonambi breaking through the gap in the British line to the camp, but I have seen that disputed on this forum (I can't find the threat, irritatingly) - I think an account by Baker (sic?) suggests that the UmBonambi arrival in the camp was relatively small beer. What is the general verdict on here regarding this moment in the battle and its impact on the British line?

Thanks,

William
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 8:35 am

Bonjour,
Question 1:
The hard-cover version contains the footnotes.
You can find the footnotes on internet.

Question 3.
Eye-witness accounts in link with Isandhlwana:
Keith I. Smith: "Select Documents ; A Zulu War Source Book"
There is also two books written by Ian Knight but I haven't the tittles in mind (NAM / War correspondants).
You can read Barker's testimony in "The Natal Carbineers" by Rev. John Stalker.
All the testimonies let by Isandhlwana's survivors are listed in "England's sons" by Julian Whybra (a member of the forum).
The letters written by Clery (and Crealock) are in "Zululand at War" (Sonia Clarke)
The letter written by Harness are in "Invasion of Zululand" (Sonia Clarke).
The Journal of John Young ( a member of this forum) mainly contained testimonial publications.
There are certainly (many) other references that I forgot to mention...
Cheers
Frédéric
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 8:58 am

Question 2:
If your question is about a book (and not essays) about Isandhlwana.
If you have the intention to read in first a rigorous analysis based only on "sources, "Hill of the Sphinx" by FWD Jackson ("(but it's only an opinion!!!).
The original version of this book is "Isandhlwana 1879, the sources re-examined" .

Cheers
Frédéric
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 11:11 am

In addition (question 3):
From an isandhlwana's survivor
"Memory of 48 years service" by Horace Smith Dorrien
From witnesses who were in the Mangeni the 22 January,
"The Zulu War Journal of Col. henry Harford" (Daphne Child)
"A lost Legionary in South Africa" by Hamilton Browne
"In Zululand with the British army..." by Charles L. Norris-Newman
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warrior3



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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 12:14 pm

Hi,
Ian's 'Zulu Rising' is the best book out there on Isandlwana & Rorke's Drift. As for Mike Snook's book on Isandlwana, it's the best description of the battle out there. It is his opinion, without sources, etc, etc, but, as a former army officer, he does give a soldier's perspective, and is well written. So, be very tempted and buy it.
Cheers
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Hamilton-Browne



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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 6:50 pm

Hi both,

Thanks for all the useful info and recommendations. I shall definitely get the Snook book, then, along with 'Hill of the Sphinx'.

Thanks,

William
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 9:20 pm

Long time since i posted !

I'd have to agree that Jackson's book is my favourite and has such detailed sources that are
easy to find.

Cheers
Sam
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 10:31 pm

Bonsoir Sam,
A few years ago, you wrote on the forum a constructive critic (remark) against "Hill of the Sphinx".
Curiously a similar critic can be written against "How men can die better". Wink

Cheers
Frédéric
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 10:53 pm

Hi Frédéric

I've no idea what i wrote several years ago put since doing 3 years of uni i think the
importance of sources and footnotes has been drilled into me!Wink Wink

I still love Snook's book as it really brought the battle to life but Jackson's has stood the test of time.

Cheers
Sam
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 10:56 pm

Sam,
No hope to read a new essay written by you?
There is a link with Pope's Coy....
Cheers
Frédéric
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 10:58 pm

There is no doubt that "Hill of the Sphinx" is the prime publication on Isandhlwana. But it was published in 2002 and only 1000 copies produced so finding a copy now is next to impossible.  Even its predecessor, "Isandhlwana the Sources Re-examined", is no longer available from the Museum of the Royal Welsh at Brecon. From time to time you can find the three original volumes of the Journal of Army Historical Research in 1965 which carried Jackson's first series of essays on the subject.  So, extremely desirable but in reality out of reach.

Ian Knight's Zulu Rising comes close, it is scholarly and more substantial, but I do not find it particularly accessible compared with Jackson. The rest are all some way behind, with Snook very entertaining and readable but, for me, too keen to display a superior understanding of things military.

Frederic has produced a very good list of the more specialised titles.

Steve Reinstadtler
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyWed Sep 05, 2018 11:20 pm

In addition of question n°3 (I.E: "eye witness accounts"):
The Red Soldier by Emery ( extracts of letters written by officers and NCO during the AZW).
Cheers
Frédéric
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90th

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PostSubject: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising    Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyThu Sep 06, 2018 6:03 am

Hi Hamilton - Brown
As mentioned by others D.W.Jackson's ' Hill Of The Sphinx ' is a must have , but as mentioned only 1,000 were printed , I bought mine from the Royal Welsh Museum shop at Brecon about 12 years ago , that was the only time I've seen them for sale , Good Luck finding one , if you do , it will be very expensive , I'm guessing 125 GBP's plus , possibly more if it's on ebay or similar . We've been asked this question many times over the years what books should people buy , it all depends on what part , or parts of the war you'd like to research ( read ) , I think there's about 20 or so on a list I compiled several years ago , that's taking it all in , including lead ups to the war and all theatres of the war . As for Snook's book it's a great read , which is exactly what it is , it's HIS opinions , and let's not forget he was an Officer in that Regiment , so you could say he's Pro 24th Regt , it's quite light on footnotes etc .
90th You need to study mo
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising    Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyThu Sep 06, 2018 6:08 am

Hamilton - Browne
I forgot to mention that you can't go wrong buying anything by Knight , Laband and K.Smith . I'd start with them then look to buy books from those who were there , there are literally many books you could do with , as I said , depends on what scale you wish to be involved , feel free to drop me a PM if you feel the need .
90th
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyThu Sep 06, 2018 9:25 am

Start with the 'Big Silver Book'. You can get it for peanuts on the web. That's the go to book, from there branch out.
ZR is easier to read if you've read the BSB
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising    Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyThu Sep 06, 2018 10:24 am

Here's the ' Big Silver Book ' Frank is referring to , and agreed it's a very good book .

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=9781872004235&n=100121503&cm_sp=mbc-_-ISBN-_-used

90th
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyThu Sep 06, 2018 9:15 pm

Hi Frédéric,

I did used to love Snook's book and i still do but given my time at uni it has made me respect sources more which is why i now find Jackson's book better if that clears my change of opinion. Salute

I did start writing another one last year but my final year got in the way and now with drummer boy discovering full time work he has less time Suspect  Suspect

Hopefully one day!!

Ian Knight's work is great i'd recommend all of his books to anyone.


Cheers
Sam
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyThu Sep 06, 2018 11:23 pm

Bonsoir Sam,
Sorry if I embarrassed you it was not my intention.
I had only in mind an interesting remark wrote by you about Bassage's testimony in link with "Hill of the Sphinx"(and you were right).
That's all.
I hope you are happy with "real life"(full time work)!
have a good day.
Frédéric
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyThu Sep 06, 2018 11:54 pm

Bonsoir à tous,
The subject of question 3 was about "a printed collection of eye witness accounts"...
Cheers
Frédéric
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Drummer Boy 14

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyFri Sep 07, 2018 7:59 pm

No embarrassment at all !

Its nice to be on the forum again Very Happy

Cheers
Sam
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Ian Knight's Zulu Rising   Ian Knight's Zulu Rising EmptyFri Sep 07, 2018 8:25 pm

Good to see you again on the forum. Salute
Cheers
frédéric
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