WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» 100,000 posts!
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySun Mar 17, 2024 11:14 am by ADMIN

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:47 pm by jgregory

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» British rations and morale
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra

» Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private Hagan
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN

» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» William J Hoare 24th Regiment??
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash

» Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young

» Philip Price
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra

» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:47 am by Julian Whybra

» About the second invasion
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyTue Feb 20, 2024 9:14 pm by 90th

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

» Watford band boys killed at iSandlwana
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyFri Feb 16, 2024 8:26 am by Julian Whybra

» Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 am by 90th

» Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 9:55 pm by ADMIN

» The anniversary of 22nd January in 2024
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 3:51 pm by luke1997

» What was the distance?
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 8:46 am by Stefaan

» Mrs Henry Hook
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyTue Feb 06, 2024 3:14 pm by Kenny

» "With 6 good riflemen"
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyMon Feb 05, 2024 2:30 pm by Mr M. Cooper

» What was G company supposed to do?
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySun Feb 04, 2024 9:31 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private 1445 Charles Meates 17th Lancers and his brother William Wylie
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 10:07 pm by John Young

» South Africa Medal With Clasp To Pvt J. Salter 3/60th
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 3:12 pm by Foody

» Weatherleys Border Horse Flag
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 01, 2024 9:40 pm by Herbie

» Edward Plantagenet Kemeys-Tynte
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:06 pm by Edjg

» How many started?
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:10 am by Julian Whybra

» Firing Line formation
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyMon Jan 22, 2024 2:32 pm by Julian Whybra

» Why did Maj. Spalding have to go ?
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyWed Jan 17, 2024 9:40 pm by Stefaan

» Grape-shot at close range.
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyMon Jan 15, 2024 7:42 am by SRB1965

» Books Hlobane & Kambula
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 10:08 am by John Young

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
March 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_leftNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  BarNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_right 
Dash
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_leftNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  BarNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_right 
Hobbes
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_leftNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  BarNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_right 
Bill8183
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_leftNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  BarNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_right 
SRB1965
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_leftNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  BarNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_right 
ADMIN
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_leftNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  BarNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_right 
jgregory
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_leftNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  BarNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_right 
John Young
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_leftNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  BarNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_right 
1879graves
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_leftNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  BarNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_right 
Tig Van Milcroft
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_leftNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  BarNon-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Bar_right 
New topics
» 100,000 posts!
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySun Mar 17, 2024 11:14 am by ADMIN

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 8:27 pm by Rob Herrick

» British rations and morale
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:24 pm by Hobbes

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyFri Feb 23, 2024 2:23 am by peterfarrell

» About the second invasion
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 9:53 pm by Hobbes

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 15, 2024 4:46 pm by Will M

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyThu Feb 15, 2024 1:24 am by ADMIN

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)

Go down 
4 posters
AuthorMessage
Catiline63

Catiline63


Posts : 28
Join date : 2019-08-24
Location : Burgess Hill, West Sussex

Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Empty
PostSubject: Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)    Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySat Sep 07, 2019 10:32 pm

The Narrative of Field Operations says that between 11 January and 15 October, 17 officers and 330 men died of disease while campaigning in Zululand. As far as I can tell these deaths, and deaths through other non-combat means (accidents, suicide, etc), have never been collated. This gap in our knowledge has frustrated me for some time, so a few months ago I decided to undertake some research myself. The result is that I've managed to track down the details of about 350 such deaths (the official count seems to be an under-estimate), with several dozen 'possibles' that might in time be added to the list. This takes me to my question: having scoured books such as Holme's 'Noble 24th', and Hope's book on the 80th, the London Gazette, the PRO's WO100 series (medal rolls), and even regimental memorials, are there any other published sources that I can refer to? Or have I now reached a point where I have to start looking at unpublished stuff the PRO might hold in the archives?  
Any input would be most welcome!

Lee
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3229
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)    Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySat Sep 07, 2019 10:58 pm

Lee,

The Parliamentary “Blue Books” of the period contains information regarding such deaths.  MacKinnon & Shadbolt’s The South African Campaign of 1879 contains details of officers’ deaths.  Further information can also be found in period newspapers.

The Casualty Return for the period held at The National Archives also includes non-combat deaths.  I’ll see if I can find the appropriate reference for you in the morning.

JY


Last edited by John Young on Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Catiline63

Catiline63


Posts : 28
Join date : 2019-08-24
Location : Burgess Hill, West Sussex

Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)    Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySat Sep 07, 2019 11:13 pm

Many thanks, John. That sounds like a great help.

I consulted M&S also (as well as the supplement to it). On the topic of officers, my list contains 28 who died non-combat deaths between 11/1/79 and 15/10/79 (20 imperial, 8 colonial), where the official Narrative count is 17!

Lee
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3229
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)    Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySun Sep 08, 2019 10:44 am

Lee,

The file to check at The National Archives is WO 25/3474, it is the combined casualty return for the Zulu War, the Afghan War and the 1st Boer War.

The Medical History of the War in Zululand in 1879 by Surgeon-General John Andrew Woolfryes, might also be of assistance to you with more accurate figures. You should be able to view or request a copy of it from The Museum of Military Medicine, Keogh Barracks, Ash Vale, Aldershot.

JY
Back to top Go down
Catiline63

Catiline63


Posts : 28
Join date : 2019-08-24
Location : Burgess Hill, West Sussex

Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)    Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySun Sep 08, 2019 12:05 pm

Thanks a lot, John. That is invaluable assistance.

Lee

Back to top Go down
Kenny




Posts : 584
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)    Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySun Sep 08, 2019 7:28 pm

Lee,

There is also WO25/3368 at TNA at Kew which covers 24th Foot deaths. I suspect there are other ledgers in WO25 series which cover the other regiments who were engaged in the AZW. This is a tricky subject in days before computer recording systems, incorrect names, locations, and regimental numbers. You have walk the ground in the Eastern Cape and Natal to see the names recorded on the memorials (some of these have been replaced in recent times containing further inaccuracies). You also have to go through the Pay & Muster rolls. At Rorke's Drift, the names on the 24th memorial, particularly those listed as died of disease, are not buried there but in a small cemetery across the otherside of the Buffalo river (no headstones though). I do have a list of casualties for 24th Foot for Frontier war and Zulu campaign. However there are about 6 queries I am unable to resolve. Finally, ledger WO25/3474 suggested by John is not very reliable.
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3229
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)    Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySun Sep 08, 2019 7:34 pm

Kenny,

I’ve got to say it was a very good cross-reference if used in conjunction with the WO 16 material, but that was nearly thirty years when I was working on They Fell Like Stones...

JY
Back to top Go down
Catiline63

Catiline63


Posts : 28
Join date : 2019-08-24
Location : Burgess Hill, West Sussex

Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)    Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptySun Sep 08, 2019 8:23 pm

Kenny,

For the 24th I've leaned primarily on Holme's research, and I've got 28 non-combat deaths for the 2/24th for 1879 (Bennett, Boyle, Brookes, Bryan, Clayton, Cope, Cronin, Cuthbert, Delaney, Dorrell, Evans, Farr, Foster, Franklin, Frowen, Haslam, James, A. Jones, D. Jones, T. Jones, Lemmond, Lyons, Sullivan, Taylor, Whittaker, Williams, and Davenport and Ricks both attached IMI).
For the 1/24th I have 11 definite non-combat deaths, with a further 8 'possibles'.

If you think I might have some material which could be helpful to you, I'm more than happy to share.

All the best,
Lee
Back to top Go down
Kenny




Posts : 584
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)    Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyMon Sep 09, 2019 2:50 pm

Lee
If you send me a private message (see memberlist), I can forward to you my notes by email

Kenny
Back to top Go down
ADMIN

ADMIN


Posts : 4349
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 64
Location : KENT

Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)    Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)  EmptyMon Sep 09, 2019 9:29 pm

Some useful information.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
https://www.1879zuluwar.com
 
Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Database of Non-combat deaths (disease, accidents, suicide, etc.)
» Combat Soldier 1879
» Soldiers and diseases

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: