Latest topics | » Looking for the medal to 1423 Pte. W. Gregg/GreigToday at 1:46 am by sam steele » 1409 Pte David Lloyd, Defender of Rorke's DriftYesterday at 8:48 pm by Julian Whybra » The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snakeThu Apr 25, 2024 9:36 am by Hobbes » Anson A. Mayer/MaherTue Apr 23, 2024 7:10 pm by cmeghen » Late Father's Militaria CollectionSun Apr 21, 2024 2:16 pm by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:28 am by Eddie » Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native ContingentSat Apr 20, 2024 9:26 am by SRB1965 » Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young » No. 985. PTE. EDWARD READ. 2-24 Regt. (South Wales Borders).Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:12 pm by Julian Whybra » Private Willis 2/24th Regiment his letter from South AfricaSat Apr 13, 2024 2:49 pm by 1879graves » Sickness among Crealock's menFri Apr 12, 2024 4:52 pm by Hobbes » Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse ArtilleryTue Apr 09, 2024 5:20 pm by Kenny » Brevet Major W.R.B. ChamberlinSun Apr 07, 2024 5:44 pm by Jager1 » Private 1941 Samuel MacClue / McClune 1/24th RegimentSun Apr 07, 2024 3:11 pm by Dash » Sergeant W E Warren RA - VeteranSun Apr 07, 2024 10:50 am by DavidS » "With 6 good riflemen"Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:10 pm by Hobbes » Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:17 pm by SRB1965 » Colonialism: A Moral LegacyMon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am by Julian Whybra » John Robert DunnSat Mar 30, 2024 12:09 pm by 90th » An early memorial to the Prince Imperial?Sat Mar 30, 2024 10:35 am by John Young » The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert WeatherleyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo » Writing adviceTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at largeWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash » Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu DawnTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra » 100,000 posts!Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra » Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory » Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra » British rations and moraleMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra » Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private HaganMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and IsandlwanaWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra » William J Hoare 24th Regiment??Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash » Swinburn Carbine issue in AZWThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D » Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young » Philip Price Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra |
April 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | | | | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snakeWed Apr 24, 2024 3:26 pm by Hobbes » Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native ContingentSat Apr 20, 2024 12:38 am by WeekendWarrior » Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young » Late Father's Militaria CollectionThu Apr 18, 2024 3:04 pm by A Crockart » Anson A. Mayer/MaherTue Apr 16, 2024 5:28 pm by cmeghen » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:01 pm by Hobbes » Sickness among Crealock's menThu Apr 11, 2024 8:51 pm by Hobbes » Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse ArtillerySun Apr 07, 2024 9:36 pm by Hobbes » John Robert DunnSat Mar 30, 2024 11:47 am by SueSNB |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
Herbie
Posts : 118 Join date : 2017-11-16 Age : 58 Location : Epsom, Surrey
| Subject: HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:46 am | |
| I’m interested in the roles of the various detachments in HMS Active’s Naval Brigade. My understanding is that most of the RN ratings and the RMLI were armed with Martini Henry’s and formed a firing line similar the the infantry. I believe the RMLI formed one company (commanded by Lt Dowding) and the ratings of HMS Active formed two companies (A coy commanded by Lt Hamilton and B coy by Sub.Lt Fraser).
Is anyone able to give more information of the roles of the RMA detachment and the native kroomen and the men who made up the crew of the various crewed weapons. What I have so far is as follows:
Gatling gun Commanded by Midshipman Coker (until he died at Eshowe) Crew: PO1 Hackett, LS Chantry, ABs Clarke, Harper, Nopps (from a crew photo on the net
Rockets (x2) Commanded by Boatswain Cotter Crew: Kroomen Jack Lewis (1 or 2?) & Jack Ropeyarn (both wounded at Nyezane)
Guns (x2) Commanded by Sub.Lt Heugh Crew: Appear to be Kroomen from a print of the Active crew.
My question is did all the Kroomen form crew for the guns and rockets or were some of them armed with Martini Henry’s with the rest of the ratings.
Secondly what was the role of the RMA gunners? I would assume that they may have formed part of the gun and rocket crews but it’s not clear from the print if that is the case. Or did they form up with the RMLI?
Lastly when Commander Campbell took command of the combined Naval Brigades who commanded the HMS Active Brigade. Was it Lt Craigie?
Regards Phil. |
| | | 90th
Posts : 10882 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
| Subject: HMS Active RMA and Krooman duties Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:49 am | |
| Hi Herbie Hopefully our resident Naval Bgde expert sees this post , I'm sure he'll be able to answer many of your questions . 90th |
| | | Petty Officer Tom
Posts : 355 Join date : 2017-02-05 Location : Texas, U.S.A.
| Subject: Re: HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:02 pm | |
| Herbie (Phil),
Here are some answers to you questions
1. My question is did all the Kroomen form crew for the guns and rockets or were some of them armed with Martini Henry’s with the rest of the ratings.
Kroomen were hired by the Royal Navy on the Cape of Good Hope and West Coast of Africa Station. They had received no official training regarding gunnery or the sailing of the ship. Most were hired to perform duties such as stoker, cook, or servant, and any strenuous duties in the tropics. They served ashore in South Africa as part of the Naval Brigade and would have been armed the same as the rest of the brigade. They would not have been used as gunners, but one or more might have been assigned to each gun crew to carry shells from the cart or waggon to the guns. Don’t be misled by the print from The Graphic, 15 February 1879, which shows the Kroomen directly behind the 12 pounder Armstrong gun as an indication that they operated the guns. The actual photographs of Active’s Naval Brigade have the gun in front of naval ratings.
2. Secondly what was the role of the RMA gunners? I would assume that they may have formed part of the gun and rocket crews but it’s not clear from the print if that is the case. Or did they form up with the RMLI?
The RMA gunners were part of Lieutenant Dowding’s company of Royal Marines and would have been armed with Martini-Henrys. Gunner Thomas Kilshaw, RMA, who wrote at least three letters home, made no mention of being part of a gun crew or rocket crew. Bombardier, RMA, Frank Parfitt was wounded while serving with the Company of Royal Marines of HMS Boadicea defending the Navy's rockets at the Northwest corner of the square at Gingindlovo.
3. Lastly when Commander Campbell took command of the combined Naval Brigades who commanded the HMS Active Brigade. Was it Lt Craigie?
Lieutenant Craigie became Staff Officer to Acting Captain Campbell when the Naval Brigades were combined. Lieutenant Hamilton was given command of HMS Active’s contingent.
Check your P.M.s
Tom |
| | | Herbie
Posts : 118 Join date : 2017-11-16 Age : 58 Location : Epsom, Surrey
| Subject: Re: HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:39 pm | |
| Thanks very much for your reply Tom, exactly the detail I was looking for. I thought you might know the answer. I will reply to your PM too. Regards Phil. |
| | | Herbie
Posts : 118 Join date : 2017-11-16 Age : 58 Location : Epsom, Surrey
| Subject: Re: HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:29 am | |
| Follow up question probably for PO Tom if I may on uniforms for the Naval Brigade. Obviously the various ships contingents all had their own uniforms but I’m struggling to get clarity on the colour of the square collars on the back of the neck. Is the collar the same thing as a “neckerchief” which I gather were black or was that just a scarf which was tied under the collar? Some illustrations show dark or black collars and others appear to show the more traditional lighter blue with 3 white stripes. Regards Phil. |
| | | Petty Officer Tom
Posts : 355 Join date : 2017-02-05 Location : Texas, U.S.A.
| Subject: Re: HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:35 pm | |
| Phil, In all the photographs that I have seen of the different contingents to the Naval Brigade from each ship the color of the collar was the same as the frock shirt. The only exception I have seen is the Gatling gun crew from HMS Active posing with the Gatling. The men appear to be in dress uniforms which do have the stripes on the collars. I seldom rely on illustrations from newspapers. As for the neckerchief it is a separate part of the uniform from the collar. It is placed under the collar and tied in the front of the frock shirt, much the same as one would wear a tie with a shirt. I recently came across this item in The Lancet, April 10, 1880. It is a letter to the editor of The Lancet from Surgeon John B. Triggs who served aboard HMS Active white Staff Surgeon Norbury and Surgeon Thompson went ashore with the Naval Brigade. Before “Active” returned to England Norbury and Triggs were both appointed to the Royal Naval Hospital at Simon’s Town. The article gives a little bit more information on the role of some of the Kroomen at the Battle of Inyezane. THE BEARER CORPS IN SOUTH AFRICA To the Editor of THE LANCET SIR – Although it is a matter of very secondary importance to anyone as to which was the first Bearer Company in action in the late war in South Africa, yet as it appears to have been made a matter of moment by Surgeon-Major Scott in his recent letter to THE LANCET (p 266), I may remark that a regularly-organised company of Kroomen belonging to the Naval Brigade, previously trained by Fleet Surgeon Norbury, R.N., Č.B., was in action with that officer at the battle of Inyezane in January, 1879 and besides this there was also a large number of trained Native Bearers. I am Sir yours faithfully, JOHN BOWDEN TRIGGS M.B., Surgeon R.N. In Medical Charge of H.M. Flag-ship Active during the late war. Royal Naval Hospital, Cape of Good Hope, March 15th, 1880
Tom |
| | | Herbie
Posts : 118 Join date : 2017-11-16 Age : 58 Location : Epsom, Surrey
| Subject: Re: HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:55 pm | |
| Thanks Tom, much appreciated. Phil |
| | | | HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |