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 NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.

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PostSubject: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Thu 12 Jan 2012 - 20:23

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Photo & Text by forum member Barry.


Note the pillbox caps and carbines; two ammo pouch bandoliers, pouches on
chest.
The names of NMP troopers in the picture are ;

left to right                  : Pennefather, Evans, Lochner, Pearse,
Eardley-Wilmot, corporal W.J.Clarke,
                                sergeant Faddy,
Middlerow left to right        : Russ, Browne, Corporal Burgoyne, Cooper,
Green, W.D.Campbell.
Front left to right            : Bethold, Ford, Ravencroft,  Hutton,
Langfield, Stevens.

Other  than Burgone, no hat badges are displayed. Burgoyne is also not
carrying the bandolier ammo pouches, and neither is trumpeter Browne.  

Taken from the NMP records.

barry
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PostSubject: NMP Involved with Eugenie Natal June 1880 .   Thu 12 Jan 2012 - 22:09

Hi Barry.
Great post , thanks mate . Thanks Pete for posting the photo .
cheers 90th. Idea
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Thu 12 Jan 2012 - 23:12

barry,

Really good photo of the NMP. It is always nice to put the face to the name.

Do you know where the photo was taken?


Petty Officer Tom
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Fri 13 Jan 2012 - 0:07


hI BARRY!

Great picture.
No first name...
Do you know who was at Isandlwana or with CHELSMFORD in the Mangeni area the 22/01:1879?

Cheers

YMOB
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PostSubject: NMP Involved with Eugenie Natal June 1880 .   Fri 13 Jan 2012 - 1:00

Hi ymob .
If the chap named ' Stevens ' was TRPTR . RICHARD . V. STEVENS then he is a survivor of Isandlwana . Mansell had 46 men of the NMP out with him on the 21 - 22nd Jan , I thought I had a list of their names but unfortunately cant find it or didnt have it as first thought .
Cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Fri 13 Jan 2012 - 5:14

This (and other) NMP rolls was intended for publication elsewhere, but since the subject of the NMP at Isandlwana recurs, I thought it would be useful to post it here.

Brett


NATAL MOUNTED POLICE

ANGLO-ZULU WAR 1879

CENTRAL COLUMN
(ISANDLWANA & RORKE’S DRIFT)

The muster roll of the Natal Mounted Police given below was recorded at Rorke’s Drift on the morning after the Battles of Isandlwana and Rorke’s Drift in order to find out the names of missing men. It was given by W J Clarke in his 1893 history of the NMP. Service numbers and initials have been added and the spelling of names follows that on the NMP enlistment roll. The men were awarded the S A Medal (1877-79) with the 1879 clasp.

The muster roll names all the Natal Mounted Policemen who were part of the Colonial mounted force that crossed into Zululand with the Central Column under the command of Lord Chelmsford. The list identifies the 34 men who were at Isandlwana and three who were at Rorke’s Drift when these camps were attacked by the Zulus. The remaining 97 men must have been with the patrol led by Major Dartnell that went in search of the Zulu army the day before the attacks on Isandlwana and Rorke’s Drift. They returned to the Isandlwana camp on the evening of the battle, spent the night in the devastated camp and left for Rorke’s Drift early the following morning. The parade during which the muster roll was compiled took place after the men were given a meal of tinned meat, bread and rum, the first food for many of them in 60 hours.



Major J G Dartnell (later Major-General Sir John Dartnell KCB CMG, Natal Police)
Inspector G Mansel (later Colonel G Mansel CMG, Natal Police)
“ F A Campbell
Sub-Inspector F L Phillips

25 Sergeant-Major W Stean (later Sub-Inspector and Adjutant)
15 Sergeant W R Faddy
115 “ W H Hobson
112 “ D F McQueen
82 “ R Moor
151 Corporal W S Chaddock (died of fever at Helpmekaar)
118 “ T H DeBathe
67 “ W Jordan
74 “ M Lally (killed at Isandlwana)
175 “ M A Masson (later Sub-Inspector)
21 “ J A Melville
178 Lance-Corporal H M Campbell (killed at Isandlwana)
269 “ R N Eaton (escaped from Isandlwana)
270 “ A Groschke
255 “ E H Lyons
149 “ A Smart

167 Trumpeter R F Angove
94 “ W Knott
80 “ J Haygarth
256 “ R W Stevens (escaped from Isandlwana)

234 Trooper C F Adams
1 “ G Babington
286 “ A C Bacon
133 “ W Balloch
261 “ F Bampton
287 “ G H Banger (killed at Isandlwana)
215 “ F E Bates
185 “ W J E Bawtree
277 “ H Beeby
258 “ G Bennett (died of fever at Helpmekaar)
179 “ H Berry (killed at Isandlwana)
276 “ E Blakeman (killed at Isandlwana)
141 “ H Boik
262 “ W I Brown
209 “ H F Campbell
124 “ H I Capps (killed at Isandlwana)
143 “ J Carpenter
264 “ C J Carter
188 “ L Carter
216 “ S Chappell
218 “ H Clark
239 “ J Clark (killed at Isandlwana)
249 “ W J Clarke (later Chief Commissioner, Natal Police)
199 “ G Collier (escaped from Isandlwana)
89 “ G I Cooper
236 “ W N Cuming
180 “ S Daniels (killed at Isandlwana)
200 “ E A Day
104 “ D Doig (escaped from Isandlwana)
284 “ H V Dorehill (escaped from Isandlwana; later Sub-Inspector)
231 “: C T Dorey (killed at Isandlwana)
142 “ W Driemeyer (murdered at Newcastle)
238 “ T Dryer
170 “ J Eason (killed at Isandlwana)
274 “ A J Evans
186 “ W Fletcher (killed at Isandlwana)
197 “ C Fogg
184 “ J Ford
240 “ A S Fowler
237 “ F Freyings
157 “ J Gilmore
159 “ D Gleeson
220 “ H C Green
219 “ R Green (wounded in the defence of Rorke’s Drift)
106 “ L Haigh
246 “ M W Hall
69 “ W Hall
268 “ W G Hall
253 “ C Hamilton (later Sub-Inspector)
254 “ H R Hamilton
113 “ G F Harrison
273 “ W Hayes (escaped from Isandlwana; died of fever at Helpmekaar)
245 “ M Hifferman
83 “ H Heise
280 “ S Hunter (killed at Rorke’s Drift)
57 “ G Hughes
288 “ J Hughes
169 “ P B Ingram (died of fever at Helpmekaar)
198 “ F E Irving
148 “ G W Jones
227 “ W Kershaw
164 “ R Kincade (escaped from Isandlwana)
232 “ C J Laughnan (died of fever at Ladysmith)
229 “ R T Litton
291 “ H C J Lloyd (killed at Isandlwana)
271 “ H Lugg (in the defence of Rorke’s Drift)
129 “ T McRae (killed at Isandlwana)
136 “ E C Mathie
152 “ C H Meares (killed at Isandlwana)
247 “ W A Medigan
278 “ P Nagle (died of fever at Helpmekaar)
235 “ H Neil (killed at Isandlwana)
272 “ W Nelson
257 “ H Newhook
49 “ A Owen
223 “ H Palmer
248 “ A Parsons (killed at Isandlwana)
230 “ W G Patrick (not on medal roll)
289 “ H T Pearse (killed at Isandlwana)
172 “ H J Pitt
102 “ J W Pleydell (killed at Isandlwana)
156 “ A F Pollard (killed at Isandlwana)
154 “ R Reed
134 “ C Robson
212 “ J Roffey
153 “ C W Royston
63 “ A Rummings
259 “ A Secretan
“ F R Secretan (killed at Isandlwana; service number not found)
177 “ R I Shannon (escaped from Isandlwana)
123 “ J W M Siddal (killed at Isandlwana)
192 “ C W Singleton
205 “ E Smith
266 “ J S Smith
9 “ H S Smithe (committed suicide at Helpmekaar)
225 “ J Soundy
202 “ J A Sowerby
140 “ C M F Sparks (escaped from Isandlwana)
126 “ T B Steer
193 “ W E Stimpson (killed at Isandlwana)
201 “ S E Thicke (killed at Isandlwana)
166 “ G E Turner
190 “ J F Walker
292 “ W B Walker
111 “ E Wall
285 “ A G B Warner
214 “ C White (killed at Isandlwana)
119 “ M H White
275 “ H Winkles (killed at Isandlwana)
265 “ D Wright





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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Fri 13 Jan 2012 - 5:22

Barry

Thank you for posting the picture of the NMP's Eugenie escort. Sergeant Faddy has a badge on his cap. Is it the same as the one in your avatar?

Regards
Brett
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PostSubject: Photograph of NMP Princess Eugenie detail   Fri 13 Jan 2012 - 7:09

Hi All,

In answer to some of the questions ;

Brett : agreed, the cap badge looks very much like my avatar, but the pic is just a little too fuzzy to be 100%
sure of this.
90th ; Stevens was the NMP trooper who fled the battlefield via Fugitives drift, losing his horse in the fast
flowing mZinyathi whilst crossing, but regained possesion of it because a Zulu NMP constable
standing on the opposite bank, saw his predicament, caught it and gave it back to him. He then
rode " hell for leather" to Helpmekaar.
ymob : No, the original picture does not give initials or christain names. if you want these please contact
me.
PO Tom : location of the picture is not given. All I can say is that it was probably not Pietermaritburg

regards

barry

PS : I see a Tpr Pearse is in this picture.


Last edited by barry on Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 3:57; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Fri 13 Jan 2012 - 23:42

barry wrote:

Hi All,

In answer to some of the questions ;


ymob : No, the original picture does not give initials or christain names. if you want these please contact
me.
.
[quote]

Hi Barry, Brett and 90th

Very interesting.
Barry, do you know who is the GREEN on the photography? (two "GREEN" on the muster roll names of Brett HENDREY).
The survivors of the battle of Isandlwana (NMP) are:
EATON, STEVENS, COLLIER, DOIG, DOREHILL, HAYES, KINCAID, SHANNON, SPARKS (sources: "they fell likes stones" by John YOUNG and "the Noble 24th" par Norman HOLME).
Trumpeter Richard STEVENS is effectively the only visible survivor on this photography (not others STEVENS recorded on the muster roll names / Brett Hendrey).
(I research for my private collection photos of NMP's troopers killed / escaped from Isandlwana or with CHELSMFORD)
I also noticed on the muster roll names a sergeant-major W. STEAN.
In "zulu victory: the epic of Isandlwana and the cover-up" by Ron Lock and Peter Quantrill p.146, you can read (night 21/01/1879 DARTNELL's bivouac):
"...trooper SYMONS recalled in admiration the calm and reassuring voice of the NMP sergeant-major as he ordered his troopers not to fire. SYMONS wrote : i liked that man's voice. It inspired confidence and courage. It was a minor tragedy of life thaht the nameless sergeant-major of mounted police never knew of the high esteem in which a young trooper of held him".
The nameless sergeant major was probably W. STEAN!
Is he the man on the photography in "Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift 22-23 January" by Ian knight ("silver book") p. 13 near trooper SPARKS? (photo of SHEPSTONE's escort during the annexion of the transvaal 1877).

Cheers

YMOB

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PostSubject: NMP muster rolls.   Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 18:00

Hi YMob,

Thanks for your interest in thre NMP.
I will shortly be giving a list of names and initials of the Princess Eugenie NMP guard detail to PO Tom, so I will copy that to you too and see what I can find out about the two Tprs Greens whilst doing that.
There was only one Stean in the NMP and he was a very fierce Sergeant Major. He had come to the NMP from a another British regiment. His nick name was "Puffy". He wa s a very good drill instructor but the NMP troopers had tremors when they learned the next lesson was to be given by SM Puffy Stean.
If a NMP recruit erred in the horse drills on the parade ground he would gallop up to the trembling soul, draw his sabre and take a swipe with it at the terrified recruit, as if to cut off his head. He never actually did that of course but troopers who had been subjected to this terror and the titters of his comrades, never put a foot wrong again.

regards,

barry


Last edited by barry on Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 3:54; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 23:39

barry wrote:

Hi YMob,

Thanks for interest in thre NMP.
I will shortly be giving a list of names and initials of the Princess Eugenie NMP guard detail to PO Tom, so I will copy that to you too and see what I can find out about the two Tprs Greens whilst doing that.
There was only one Stean in the NMP and he was a very fierce Sergeant Major. He had come to the NMP from a another British regiment. His nick name was "Puffy". He wa s a very good drill instructor but the NMP troopers had tremors when they learned the next lesson was to be given by SM Puffy Stean.
If a student erred in the horse drills on the parade ground he would gallop up to the trembling soul, draw his sabre and take a swipe with it at the terrified recruit, as if to cut off his head. He never did that of course but troopers who had been subjected to this terror and the tittters of his comrades, never put a foot wrong agaian.

regards,

barry
[quote]

Hi Barry,

Thanks for your precious help.
I imagine it's a "big work" to search the names and initials of the Princess Eugenie NMP guard...
Very funny your story on Colour Sergent "Puffy" STEAN.
I know "Puffy" with the book "The Natal Mounted Police of Natal" H.P HOLT). "He was a soldier from the tip of his pith helmet to the soles of his boots and he knew to a nicety exactly when to pour forth a stream of invective when the drill grew ragged . A man of tireless energy".
But this book on the NMP has only ten pages on Isandlwana ...

Cheers

YMOB

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PostSubject: NMP Involved with Eugenie Natal June 1880 .   Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 0:30

Hi Barry .
I thought I had a list of the NMP that accompanied Eugenie but alas I cant find it . Some questions have been asked on the Eugenie sojourn to S.A so I'll post some of it from Wood's book ' From Midshipman To Field Marshall ' .
'' Her majesty was graciously pleased to honour me with the charge of the Empress on a journey she was undertaking to the spot where her gallant son perished . The Queen enjoined on me the greatest care for the safety of her sister , and I replied I could only accept full responsibility if H.I.M. the Empress would follow my instructions as if she were a soldier in my command . This was arranged , and on the 25th March 80 the Empress sailed from Southampton to Capetown and Durban . Her Imperial Majesty had sent me a cheque for 5 ,000 Pds , desiring me to purchase everything required , and to defray all charges . I handed back on our return to the Empress' Secretary 3 ,600 Pds . I was allowed to take my ADC Capt Arthur Bigge , and Lt Slade as an extra ADC. Both these officers had distinguished themselves by the courage with which they fought their guns in the open at Kambula 12 months earlier . The Marquis de Bassano , Lady Wood , and the Honourable Mrs Ronald Campbell , the widow of my staff officer and friend who fell leading so determinedly at the Inhlobane , Dr Scott of the Army Medical Dept , two maids in the servive of the Empress , Walkinshaw ,
my Bugler , who had served with me in 78 -79 , and a complete establishment of servants made up the party . Wood goes on to say .......... '' We left Maritzburg on thursday the 29th April , with Waggons , cooks , servants , waggon drivers , and mules . The party consisting of 80 persons .
cheers 90th. Idea
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PostSubject: Gen Wood's account of the Princess Eugenie visit to Natal   Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 4:43

Hi 90th,

Thanks for your post on the Wood report of the French Royal visit to Natal. I will shortly copy you with a full names list of the NMP guard detail too.

Getting the full story behind anything like this is always difficult. Wood's account coupled to the essay posted on this forum on the same subject, recounting the events as seen out of the eye of a mischievious NMP trooper involved, helps to" fill in" to complete the bigger picture. This, of course is a major job for a historian, as what is written and recorded as "history" will very much depend on the view point researched.

Now a little aside. Corporal Will Clarke who was part of the NMP guard detail on the French Royal visit was an incredibly good shot with his carbine. He had practised often and had taken great care to caliibrate the sights of the weapon to work well with the ammunition issued. So whilst the French Royal royal tour was travelling through Zululand, there was much time to see the countryside, so Corporal Clarke took Gen Sir Evelyn Wood to do some big game hunting one afternoon. Gen Wood borrowed Corporal Clarke's carbine for this and under the tutelage of his junior, Cpl Clarke, Gen Wood knocked over, with a number of antelope with one shot kills in each case. The meat so gained from the mini hunting safari was used to feed the whole Royal party and the General can be visualised standing 9 feet tall at the braai fires that night.

General Wood was thoroughly impressed with his own newly found shooting prowess , and the carbine, and told Corporal Clarke afterwards, " I like your carbine and I am sure that you can get another one from the armoury." Corporal Clarke, sensing a direct command from a very senior officer, with some trepidation handed it over to the General, knowing full well that he had to face the fiery wrath of SM Puffy Stean on return to Pietmaritzburg and having to explain how he lost his carbine to the General.

regards

barry


Last edited by barry on Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 11:08; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 5:35

Amongst the NMP rolls in my files is one for the Empress Eugenie escort:

NATAL MOUNTED POLICE

ESCORT FOR EMPRESS EUGENIE OF FRANCE – 1880

The Empress Eugenie visited Natal for seven weeks during April, May and June 1880 in order to see the place where her son, the Prince Imperial of France, Louis Napoleon, was killed during the Zulu War. No medal was issued for this duty.


15 Sergeant W R Faddy
182 Corporal S Burgoyne
249 “ W J Clarke (later Chief Commissioner, Natal Police)

295 Trooper P Berthold
262 “ W Brown
391 “ W D Campbell (later Sub-Inspector and Quartermaster)
310 “ G I Cooper
372 “ F Evans
184 “ J Ford
318 “ H C Green
413 “ G W Heathcote
324 “ J M Hutton
“ Lochner (either 181 F E Lochner or 423 F W Lochner)
329 “ H Longfield
382 “ H Pennefather
217 “ H Piers
359 “ A W Ravenscroft
339 “ A B Russ
256 “ R W Stevens
“ Wilmot (service number not found)

Brett
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PostSubject: NMP Involved with Eugenie Natal June 1880 .   Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 5:52

Hi Brett & Barry.
Thanks for the info , much appreciated .
cheers 90th. Idea
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PostSubject: NMP names list   Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 7:10


Hi Brett, ymob, 90th,

Thanks Brett for quoting NMP names and numbers.
Going through it however I see some typo's. eg I think Piers should be Pearson
Eardley-Wilmot is not listed (third right back row in picture) but is perhaps shown as Wilmot on the list.
Heathcote is on the list but not in the picture.
I think that Heathcote being missing is the explanation why 20 troopers were originally scheduled for the task, but the actual overall number ended up as 19.

regards


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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 7:28

Hi all

With this picture, it is almost on the equipment carried by the police in 1880, for january 1879 and for the volunteers, is another matter ...

Cheers

Pascal
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 8:58

Hi Barry

Many thanks for the corrections. 'Eardley-Wilmot' for 'Wilmot' explains why I could not find his service number, which is 375.

Regards
Brett
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 13:08

barry wrote:

.
Going through it however I see some typo's. eg I think Piers should be Pearson

barry
[quote]

Hi Barry, Brett and 90th

PEARSON or PEARSE H. ?

There is a H. PENNEFATHER In the escort for Empress Eugenie.
But no PENNEFATHER on the muster roll list of Brett ("Central column Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift").
In the diaries of Fred SYMONS (Natal Carbineers) there is a HARRY PENNEFATHER ( a Natal Carbineer) the 22/01/1879 in the Mangeni with CHELSMFORD!!!!
Very curious.

Cheers

YMOB
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 13:27

[quote="ymob"]
barry wrote:

.
In the diaries of Fred SYMONS (Natal Carbineers) there is a HARRY PENNEFATHER ( a Natal Carbineer) the 22/01/1879 in the Mangeni with CHELSMFORD!!!!
Very curious.

[quote]

The story Fred SYMONS - HARRY PENNEFATHER is (maybe / perhaps scratch ) in "Zulu Rising" of Ian KNIGHT (i haven't my books with me).

Cheers

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PostSubject: Trooper Pearse, NMP   Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 14:01



Hi ymob ( Brett and 90th)

Thanks for picking that up , it should be Pearse., and not Pearson.
As regards H Pennefather, it could well have been the same person because these fellows did migrate from one unit to another. However, this guard group of 19 NMP had nothing to do with Chelmsfords central column in 1879 and the muster roll for this, more than a year later would have been very different.

regards,

barry


PS: I have no knowledge of Fred Symons,despite the fact that a quote regarding him has been attributed to me.
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 15:53

barry wrote:


PS: I have no knowledge of Fred Symons,despite the fact that a quote regarding him has been attributed to me.
[quote]

Hi barry,

Thanks you very much.
Sorry for the "false quote" . It's me....

Regard

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90th

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PostSubject: NMP Involved with Eugenie Natal June 1880 .   Mon 16 Jan 2012 - 23:50

Hi Barry.
As an aside , Trpr . J.P. ( Fred ) Symons , served with the N.C during the war , after the war he wrote ' My Reminiscenses Of The Zulu War ' . Quite Lengthy about 34 pages , Ian Knight often uses his notes in his publications , these , the original notes are in the
Killie Campbell Library ; code ; KCAL 351568.
Cheers 90th. Idea
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barry

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PostSubject: Symons   Tue 17 Jan 2012 - 6:49


Hi 90th,

Thanks for those refs. Maybe at sometime in the future I will take a look at those.

regards

barry
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 13 Feb 2012 - 14:52

Barry
Do you have the accession number of this photo in the NMP archives as a reference? Also is there a date on the photo at all?
Thanks.

Brett
In your list shouldn't Trooper HT Pearse be spelt Pearce? I'd be grateful for clarification.
Thanks.
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Brett Hendey

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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Wed 15 Feb 2012 - 5:22

Julian

The name is '289 PEARSE H T' on the enlistment roll. He joined on 12/11/1878. There are three 'PEARCE's' on this roll but they joined much later (1894, 1900 & 1902).

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Brett
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Wed 15 Feb 2012 - 8:37

Many thanks
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PostSubject: Trumpeter Stevens   Sat 28 Apr 2012 - 8:53

Thank you for the post. Richard W Stevens is my great grandfather. (He is shown erroneously as Richard V Stevens in some places) I only have two photos of him which I also picked up via this forum and those are both of him as a much older man (1941 and 1946) so it is good to see one of him as he would have been at Isandlwana. In fact he looks a lot like my brother at that age. His name is Bruce Richard Stevens with the Richard being linked to GGF.

The other interesting connection is that one of my wife's ancestors accompanied Princess Eugenie on the ship from Europe when she went to Zululand.

You mention that the photo was 'taken from NMP records'. Are you able to tell me where these are held and whether I would be able to obtain a higher resolution scan or copy?

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Alun Stevens
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 30 Apr 2012 - 13:29

Brett

I notice in your rolls that you have posted that you show my GGF, RW Stevens, as having service number 256. His Zulu War medal is however engraved "254. TRMPTR. R.W. STEVENS N.M.P."

There is a difference between the rolls and the medal.

Alun
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 30 Apr 2012 - 15:46

The muster rolls provide the official record of enlistment and numbering. It's the medal that will have been engraved in error.
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Tue 1 May 2012 - 7:01

Alun

I expect that Julian's reply is correct and I will keep Stevens' number as 256 . However, the early records of the NMP are not perfect and we may never know where, when and by whom mistakes were made.

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Brett
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Rory Reynolds



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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Tue 4 Jul 2017 - 19:41

I happened upon this post by chance but was very pleased that I did as I had no photo wherein W.D. Campbell appears. He is linked to my mother's side by marriage (Rapson).

I have his medals and have done quite a comprehensive write-up on him.

Is there any chance of any further information or photos?

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Rory
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barry

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PostSubject: Insp Campbell, NMP   Thu 6 Jul 2017 - 15:15

Hi Rory,
There is a chance of more information as well as pictures of Insp Campbell. In the 1906 edition of NMP magazine, "The Nongqai" he is featured a number of times as he was well respected by his peers and superiors alike. I seem to remember too that he was related too to a senior member of the Natal Judiciary.
However, I am not near my archives right now, so will it take a little time to get what you want.
Bear with me a little.

regards

barry
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Thu 6 Jul 2017 - 18:33

Thanks in anticipation Barry
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Kenny



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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Thu 6 Jul 2017 - 20:24

Alun,

Here is a extract of an article on the Campbell family which I wrote for the Guards Magazine.  Kitty Campbell, who accompanied the Empress in South Africa, was the widow of Capt Ronald Campbell (Coldm Gds) killed at Hlobane.

His mother, Empress Eugénie was naturally distraught over the loss of her only son.  She was consoled by Queen Victoria.  The Queen arranged for a cross to be erected at the site of the Prince’s death.  In March 1880 Empress, incognito as the Comtesse de Pierre-fonds, embarked at Southampton aboard the Union Steamship ‘German’ for South Africa accompanied by Kitty Campbell, Colonel Sir Evelyn and Lady Wood as escorts.  The group travelled 800 miles in a four-horse carriage and slept 50 nights under canvas.  On the anniversary of her son’s death she kept a vigil at the cross Queen Victoria had erected at the site of his death.  In the stillness before dawn she saw the candle flames bend and flicker and believed that her son’s spirit was present.  They also visited Hlobane, the grave of Captain Campbell and the site of the British defeat at Isandlwana.  A small bouquet of flowers picked from this battlefield and later given to Mrs Evelyn Younghusband widow of Captain Reginald Younghusband 1/24th, the last British officer to fall, on the party’s return still survives in the Regimental Museum in Brecon.  The party arrived back at Southampton aboard the steamship ‘Trojan’ on 26th July 1880.  The Empress was 55 years old and would live another 40 years, the first 20 as the tragic widow who had lost a son, and the last 20 as the doyenne among the sovereigns of Europe.  She had a successful cataract operation shortly before she caught a cold while on a visit to Spain and died.  Eugénie is buried alongside her husband and son in the crypt of St Michael’s Abbey, Farnborough, Hampshire.
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90th

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PostSubject: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie    Fri 7 Jul 2017 - 13:36

Hi Kenny
Not to sure about Younghusband being the last British Officer to fall , Anstey and his men got to the manzimyama before being killed .
90th
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PostSubject: The French Royal visit   Fri 7 Jul 2017 - 17:49

Hi All,
It would appear from general comment on this thread that there is not much known about the deranged British aristocrat, Lady Avonmore, who chased the French party around Zululand , claiming to be the grieving wife of Louis, and wanting to participate in the proceedings with the Empress Eugenie. The NMP were charged with keeping her away from the French Royal party, which they did successfully.

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barry
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Fri 7 Jul 2017 - 18:45

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Derbyshire Times and Chesterfield Herald 19 October 1881
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Fri 7 Jul 2017 - 18:55

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The Scotsman 23 November 1881
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Fri 7 Jul 2017 - 19:20

A few photos of Maria Theresa Longworth or Thérèse Yelverton, Viscountess Avonmore.

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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Fri 7 Jul 2017 - 19:30

Hi Barry

Do we know who the two troopers were?


Theresa earned her keep as a travel writer, and when she heard that the Empress Eugenie was coming to South Africa she made a dart for the nearest ship and set off in hot pursuit, hoping to ingratiate herself with the mourning woman, write some articles on their African adventures, and possibly even research a biography on Louis himself. Once here she pulled the wool over the eyes of the British officials and the media, claiming that she was a friend and ex-secretary of the Empress, who urgently needed to catch up with her en route to the scene of Louis’ death.

People fell over themselves to help Lady Avonmore console the grieving Empress, who had never even met her before, and gave her a police escort for herself, along with a wagon, horses and provisions to help her on her way. While travelling she told the young troopers who escorted her that she had secretly married the Prince Imperial, who was half her age. One trooper, at least, said afterwards that he thought she was a little mad.

Unfortunately for Yelverton, Sir Evelyn Wood, who headed the Empress’s party, got wind of the stalker’s activities and managed to stop her getting within 100m of Eugenie, although she camped within sight of the party most nights.

The Empress returned to exile in England, and Yelverton, penniless and in poor health, settled in Pietermaritzburg where she earned her living writing vitriolic columns for The Natal Witness. She died in the city in 1881.
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Fri 7 Jul 2017 - 20:25

Wily old Evelyn Wood set up a 2 mile exclusion zone to thwart Longworth.
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Sat 8 Jul 2017 - 4:28

Thanks Kenny.

My little titbit, that I alluded to some years ago, is the connection of my wife's family to Eugenie. The story is the oral history of the Ayliff family of Grahamstown so must be treated as such.

My wife's great-great-great aunt, Sarah Ann Ayliff - sister of great-great-grandfather Jonathan Ayliff and daughter of Rev John Ayliff (who compiled the first Xhosa-English dictionary) - was on the ship from England to South Africa with Eugenie. The story is that she wanted to speak to Eugenie, but was advised by others that this wasn't appropriate because Eugenie was a princess and an empress. Sarah Ann's reply was that she was a grieving mother and proceeded to engage with Eugenie.

The Ayliffs also interacted with Eugenie in South Africa and Sarah Ann is reputed to have taught Eugenie some Xhosa.

Reuben Ayliff, Sarah Ann's brother, was also involved with the Zululand party as interpreter. The suggestion is that this came about, at least in part, because of Sarah Ann's engagement with Eugenie.

Eugenie gave Sarah Ann a silver hip flask, but being good Methodists all, and lifelong teetotallers, no alcohol has ever been put into the flask. It became an heirloom that was passed along the generations of teetotal men in the family and it can now be found in the Settlers Museum in Grahamstown.

Agnes Carey, in her book, Empress Eugenie in Exile, The Century Co., New York, 1920, p. 171-172. says the following:

Farnborough Hill,
June 23, 1886.
Yesterday, Mr. and Mrs. Ayliff from the Cape of Good Hope, and who are traveling in England, lunched here, bringing with them a whole bazaar full of curiosities from South Africa for the Empress. They had been very kind and had entertained her in the Cape in 1880. They are simple genuine people, and enjoyed their visit here very much. They know Mr. Wilmot out there, it seems.

There was actually no Mr and Mrs Ayliff. There was a Mr Ayliff and two Misses Ayliff, including Sarah Ann. My wife has a photograph of them in the garden.

The other interesting thing is that John Ayliff was an 1820 settler who went to South Africa on La Belle Alliance. A fellow member of the Wilson Party was John Norton whose granddaughter, Catharina Louiza/Selina (Kate), married Richard Walford Stevens.
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Sat 8 Jul 2017 - 6:18

1879Graves

This reference may be on interest. I found it some years ago, but have done nothing with it as I have no access to the PMB Archives.

The reference is as follows:
DEPOT NAB
SOURCE CSO
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 2554
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE C40/1880
PART 1
DESCRIPTION THE COLONIAL SECRETARY ASKS FOR INFORMATION REGARDING AN ESCORT OF
NATAL MOUNTED POLICE SUPPLIED TO A LADY PROCEEDING TO THE CAMP OF THE EMPRESS, ZULULAND.
STARTING 18800000
ENDING 18800000
REMARKS 164/1880 10/1880.

The file is to be found in the Pietermaritzburg Archive Repository.

I have got photos of insolvency documents from 1909 re Richard Walford Stevens from the Cape Town archive. I am awaiting another set of insolvency papers from the Bloemfontein archive for him and Robert Shedden Green (Rorke's Drift), who were in a failed business together in 1883, and a criminal trial transcript from 1925 for Richard Walford from the Pretoria archive.
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PostSubject: Lady Avonmore   Sun 9 Jul 2017 - 6:06

Hi 1879,
To answer your questions as to which NMP troopers interacted with the "Lady", the answer is both NMP Trooperd Pennefather  and  Campbell , who were especially mentioned in this regard.
However, both Bigge and Wood went to the stop line to  negotiate with her and yet other  NMP members were also involved to take food to her distant camp, supplied by the Royal party, because her supplies had run out.
Now a note for Pete : I see that the picture that I supplied of the party of 19 NMP troopers posted at the head of this thread has been blocked by Photo bucket. Why is this so and what gives them the right to claim ownership of a picture which I supplied


regards


barry.
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Sun 9 Jul 2017 - 19:46

aalunste
Wasn't there a Capt. Ayliff in charge of the 6th troop of Natal Native Horse, the one that went with Bengough? Same family?
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Sun 9 Jul 2017 - 20:34

Captain F.B. Slade, RA, who accompanied the Empress Eugenie on her pilgrimage to Zululand in 1880, remained a lifelong friend of the Empress.  Here is a microscope given by the Empress to Colonel F. Slade, C.B. for Christmas 1896.   (Isandula Collection)
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 10 Jul 2017 - 2:31

Julian

I don't know as I have not done any looking for Ayliffs and I know nothing about the Natal Native Horse. My investigations have been entirely elsewhere. If someone perhaps knows what his given names were, I am sure that I can run him to ground. As far as I know, all the Ayliffs were connected.

A number of Sarah Ann Ayliff's brothers took part in the Frontier Wars in the Eastern Province and were involved in commanding Native Levies. John Ayliff (1821-1878) was the oldest and was also the Colonial Treasurer in Natal and eventually a judge there. He died before the Zulu campaigns. James Ayliff (1831-1910) was quite active during the Frontier Wars commanding Fingo levies. Rev. John Ayliff, their father, had played a significant role in rescuing and protecting the Fingoes from the Xhosa which would have facilitated this position. Their brothers William and Reuben also participated in the Frontier Wars. All were fluent Xhosa/Zulu speakers.
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 10 Jul 2017 - 9:43

aalunste
All I have is the initial J. Ayliff I'm afraid.
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PostSubject: Re: NMP detail involved with the Princess Eugenie , ex Empress of the French visit to Natal in June 1880.    Mon 10 Jul 2017 - 13:29

Thanks Julian.

That was what I was hoping you would not say because John and Jonathan were very common names amongst the Ayliffs. And then there was James too. I will have to consult my oracle - she with the 12,500 record family database.

My quick perusal of the database suggests that it was possibly James (1831-1910). None of the Johns and Jonathans appear to be the right age or in the right place and all the other J's were women.

The quick family story extract I can get on him says the following:
"Once when he was a small boy at Bathurst during the Frontier War, he was taking two horses to drink at a spring just below his father's house. Two armed natives sprang out of some bushes & dragged him from his horse. He concluded that he would be killed, but pleaded for his life in such fluent Xhosa that they let him go, but took the horses. James was able to show the red clay marks of the hands of the Xhosas on his white jacket & so prove his miracle escape. John Ayliff says, 'This self-same jacket is sacredly preserved by his dear mother as a constant remembrance of God's great goodness to her son in the time of great danger.'

He was Superintendent of the Witteberg Native Reserve, 1850, & during the Frontier War of Umlangeni 1850-3 was Captain of the Witteberg Fingo Lines. He was subsequently appointed Superintendent of the Crown Reserve at Middledrift, Keiskamahoek, & afterwards, about 1870, was appointed Civil Commander & Resident magistrate of Dordrecht.

In 1873 he was removed to the Transkei, where he was British Resident with the Chief Kreli, son of Hintza. During the 9th Frontier War, 1877-8 (Gaika-Galeka campaign). he was Comdt. of the Fingo Levies. Later he was Civil Commissioner at East London and after that Cradock, until he was appointed Commissioner at Graaff-Reinet."

Maybe you have some other linking information on J Ayliff of the Natal Native Horse that might correlate with some of this?
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