Zulu medal experts

Posts : 46 Join date : 2013-01-06

Hello there, This is my first post on the forum so please forgive me if i am treading on people's toes.
I have a South Africa medal which needs verifing to see if it is the correct style of naming, i have been told it is by someone who has been dealing for years. However the medal is to a defender of Rorke's Drift so i have to be careful. I cannot give you his name at the moment until things are verified, but he is on the medal rolls.So if you chaps know who i can contact or take it to i would be grateful.

Thanks

Subject: Zulu Medal Experts Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:03 pm

Hi Lionshead .
Firstly welcome to the forum , possibly Bill Cainan the curator at the Royal Regt Of Wales Museum may be able to help . They do have Rorke's Drift participants Medals in their collection as far as I'm aware . There is a Medal Seller who is a member on here , I dont think its up to me to disclose his identity , but he may contact you via the pm service , but for the medal to be verified you would obviously need to send him pictures of the naming on the rim etc etc . Good Luck , and if it is the real deal you have a wonderful item as you are no doubt aware ! . Very Happy

Cheers 90th. Salute

Posts : 46 Join date : 2013-01-06

Hello 90th,
Many thanks for your reply and welcome.The Museum at Brecon was contacted by the man i brought the medal off, who is a dealer and friend of mine,he was told that they did not have that man's medal in their collection.The dealer has shown it to a "expert" who had doubts but was willing to buy it! I have a sell back clause to my dealer friend,where he will have it back for the same price i paid for it, so there is a safety net in place for me. I been dealing with him for years, he is one of the old school he will not split family groups up for the sake of a bigger profit and has principles he keeps to.

Thanks, Lionhead

Subject: Re: Zulu medal experts Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:51 am

Lionshead
welcome to the forum. I dont know where you live - but for verification \I would recommend one of the big medal auction houses either Spinks or DNW . They will have experts wh will very quickly be able to tell you if it is genuine. Alternatively dependant on location you could ask one of the more reputable dealers to have a look - I would recommend either Rennie Alcock at British Medals or Justin Young at Jager medals. they are both very knowledgable and have high levels of integrity.

I would suspect wherever you go you will be asked wether you wish to sell it - to give you some idea of value the last I saw sold (hammer) for £27000 and is currently on a dealers list at £38000 but has been there a while so may be a but over priced. Value depends on rank and his roll/activities during the defence.

Be aware that idf you decide to sell by auction you will pay 20% of the hammer in commission a reputable dealer shouldnt charge you more than 10%.

Personally if it is authentic I would never sell it but cherish and research it it would be the pride of any collection.

I agree with 90th Bill Canain at teh museum should be able to help too.

If you want any more advise - contact details etc please let me know. BTW I am a medal collector not a dealer!!

Sergio

Subject: Zulu Medal Experts Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:03 am

Hi Lionshead .

I agree with Sergio's recommendations regarding Rennie & Justin . I dont know your financial status but if you dont need to sell it
then keep it , it's a wonderful item , I'd love to have one but they are out of my league , till the lottery numbers come up ! Very Happy

Cheers 90th.

Posts : 75 Join date : 2011-02-26 Location : Scotland

Lionshead, I collect and trade in SA 1877-9's as others have mentioned and happy to give my thoughts, will PM you with my details.

I'm in Scotland but if your anywhere near London then you couldn't do better than showing John Hayward at Spink it

Jager1

Subject: Re: Zulu medal experts Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:05 pm

Lionshead, welcome to the forum. I would only echo what SD, Jager and 90th have said. Make an appointment to take it to one of the big auction houses, they have premises in most major cities. I am sure that if your trusted dealer thinks it is right, then it is, but you are harming no one in getting a second opinion. No one can confirm the naming is correct in photos alone; they will need to handle the medal, examine the naming closely with an eye glass and take measurements.
And don't let them talk you into selling it; and don't leave it on a bus or train - wear a jacket with an inside zipped up pocket!

Posts : 190 Join date : 2011-03-16 Age : 56

And dont talk to any strangers Salute

Posts : 46 Join date : 2013-01-06

Hello,
Thanks to everyone who have given advice to me, it has given me something to chew on.The medal was brought for a investment,i can thank the banks for that with the pathetic interest they pay. I am a medal collector and this one will stay in my collection and have pride of place but this is the most expensive one i shall ever own, whether it is right or wrong. Hopefully it will top my pension pot up one day if there is still such a thing in about 15 years time! I have been lucky i have visted Rorke's Drift and Isandhlwana twice in the last few years, and i defy anyone not to feel emotional when visiting those places.

Regards Lionshead

Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25

When will you tell who the medal was awarded to??? Wink

Posts : 190 Join date : 2011-03-16 Age : 56

Lionshead, i know exactly what you mean about feelings when visiting Rorkes Drift & Isandlwana. i found Isandlwana very eerie probaly knowing what happenend there, a visit that will stay with me forever. Salute

Posts : 46 Join date : 2013-01-06

24th wrote:: When will you tell who the medal was awarded to???

When i can get to London and the experts can give their opinions on it. I live in deepest darkest Devon way out in the sticks, so it would be a visit and a break in London combined. The chap who sold me the medal had some Crimean medals from the same source and one of these turned out to be a charger from the Light Brigade! The old chap who had these medals in his collection for the best part of 60 years, when it was not very easy to research anything, he did not know he had a Charger medal, so who knows?

Posts : 46 Join date : 2013-01-06

Hello,
I have finally shown the medal to a expert from a London auction house at one of their valuation days, he was happy with it and wanted to consign it to one of their auctions! It will be staying in my collection in pride of place for a few years yet. Happy days!

Subject: Re: Zulu medal experts Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:32 pm

Thats good news - I am pleased for you. Any chance you can share with the Forum who it is named to. At which point you will be swamped with information and research!!

Sergio

Posts : 190 Join date : 2011-03-16 Age : 56

So now you know, who is the medal too? cheers

Posts : 588 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon

There was a very useful article (unfortunately I do have a copy) written by John Hayward of Spinks which appeared in the Journal of the Orders & Medals Research Society some years ago regarding the styling of the naming of the South Africa 1977-79 Medal.

Posts : 46 Join date : 2013-01-06

Hello everyone, First of all happy Easter to you all, no matter what your beliefs! Now to set the cat amongst the pigeons, the medal was award to William Henry Camp.

Subject: Re: Zulu medal experts Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:05 pm

Very nice!

Neil

Posts : 947 Join date : 2011-10-21 Location : Algoa Bay

Hi All,

The Camps were part of NMP's Tpr Henry Lugg's ( Rorkes drift defender) family.
If this is one of them, the owner of the medal awarded to William Henry camp has had quite a valuable find.

regards,

barry

Subject: Re: Zulu medal experts Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:11 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Biographical Tributes to:
Pte. William H. Camp 24 Regt. - Born Camberwell, London
Pte. James Hagan (Egan) 24 Regt. – Born Ireland
Drummer Patrick Hayes 24 Regt. – Born Ireland
Pte. David Lewis (James Owen) 24 Regt. – Born Pembrokeshire

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

I do not have this edition of Legacy, in which Kris W no doubt spells out the history of William Henry Camp, but it is clearly another sad case.

His papers show he was medically retired from the SWB in December 1881 as insane. Sadly, in the 1891 census, he is a patient in Woking Lunatic Asylum.

Steve

Subject: Zulu Medal Experts Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:52 pm

Hi Lionshead
A wonderful item no doubt about that , as Steve has mentioned , it's an extremely valuable piece , will do wonders for your pension plan ! Very Happy

Cheers 90th Salute

Posts : 1862 Join date : 2009-03-25

barry wrote:: Hi All,

The Camps were part of NMP's Tpr Henry Lugg's ( Rorkes drift defender) family.
If this is one of them, the owner of the medal awarded to William Henry camp has had quite a valuable find.

regards,

barry

90th Barry said it, not Steve.

Posts : 2871 Join date : 2010-06-02

I don't think William Henry Camp is one of the Camp's related to the Lugg family. Henry Lugg came from Okehampton in Devon and married Mary Camp who was born in Bristol in 1857. Her father Edwin Gillard Camp was a Master Hairdresser from Barnstaple.

William Henry Camp was born in Camberwell High Street, South London, in 1853. His father was William Camp who was a butcher.

But still a very valuable find.

Steve

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