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Zulu Dawn Film Lt. Col. Pulleine: Lord Chelmsford assures us that there is no way the Zulu can get around us without our knowing. Col. Durnford: Zulu generals have a nasty habit of doing the unexpected. It might be wise to picket the hills.
 
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The Death of Lt. Frith, 17th Lancers.
Biscuit Boxes Screenshot-20190305-200950-Gallery-181x240 At eZungeni, Zulu War of 1879" original painting by Hermanus Willem Koekkoek (1869-1929) (Isandula Collection)
Isandlwana & Rorke's Drift 22nd January 2019
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snowyowl



Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-07-17
Age : 79
Location : Prince Edward Island, Canada

Biscuit Boxes Empty
PostSubject: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyWed Jul 17, 2013 2:39 pm

I'm trying to find out what the biscuit boxes used in the "Biscuit Box Wall' at Rorkes Drift really looked like including their dimensions.     Can anyone help?
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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7072
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Age : 50
Location : Down South.

Biscuit Boxes Empty
PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyWed Jul 17, 2013 4:23 pm

Biscuit boxes (approximately 50 kilograms in weight)

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snowyowl



Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-07-17
Age : 79
Location : Prince Edward Island, Canada

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PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyThu Jul 18, 2013 1:36 pm

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. I've seen the pictures in that thread and they are certainly useful but the problem is that here are 4 different versions shown. There is the one in your link but there is another of a reproduction box, the W Britain one and the one shown in the painting. They are all different. I was hoping that there might be examples in regt. museums or in the War Museum with pictures but my research turns up the same link as you sent me.
Thanks.
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bill cainan



Posts : 219
Join date : 2011-09-19

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PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyThu Jul 18, 2013 4:36 pm

Snowyowl

The picture with four images are of the reproduction box in the Brecon Museum - apart from the colour, this one is identical to the one in South African Museum of Military History. Ignore the ones done by Wm Britain and the ones shown in the painting.

Bill
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90th

90th

Posts : 9956
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 63
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Biscuit Boxes    Biscuit Boxes EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 1:03 am

Hi Bill .
Thanks for that , I may have missed it but do we know what colour the Biscuit boxes were ?
Were they painted or just the timber look ? . I suppose this may have been covered previously if so , sorry .
90th
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DundeeBoer

DundeeBoer

Posts : 53
Join date : 2010-09-24

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PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 5:28 am

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You will have to excuse the leather Enfield sling added on the side and the hemp rope tied onto the lid and substituting for the hinge. This was added at some point. (Should be a sort of horseshoe shaped two part wire staple hinge).  Other than that, all correct and should give a fairly good picture. Hope it helps.
Cheers,  Jeff

Salute 90th, Been a while, hope you're well old friend.
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barry

barry

Posts : 908
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Algoa Bay

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PostSubject: Tinned plum pudding at Rorkes Drift   Biscuit Boxes EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 7:19 am

Hi Dundeeboer,
Thanks for those splendid pics of the biscuit boxes.
Now, another unusual one where you may have a picture.
The relieving force at Rorke's Drift were fed tinned plum pudding by the RD camp ASC commisiariat to assuage their hunger ( most of the Dartnell patrol had not eaten for 60hrs prior to that)
Now, plum pudding is a traditional festive food and 23/01 was somewhat late for celebrations.
The question then arises what was this item doing at Rorke's Drift?. In answer, the story goes that the plum pudding was a gift to the troops from the grateful residents of one of the Natal towns. The  ox wagon carrying it up to the front in the middle of December was swept away whilst  attempting to cross the flooded Mooi River. All  16 draft oxen, the wagon, its driver, voerlooper,  and the load were lost in the very swollen river. Losses such as this were common place there in the wet season.
So, a resupply was sent, but it arrived too late at the front for consumption during the 1878 Christmas or New Year festivities. Thus, plum pudding and copious quantities of rum were  eagerly consumed by the tired and hungry men in the relieving force under Chelmsford, who arrived at RD am 23/01.
 
regards,
 
barry


Last edited by barry on Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:01 pm; edited 3 times in total
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90th

90th

Posts : 9956
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Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 7:21 am

Hi Jeff .
Has been a long while , I'm well , how did you get on with the eye procedure , hope all is well ? .
Thanks for the photo very much appreciated mate . How goes the collecting ???????.
Cheers 90th.
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bill cainan



Posts : 219
Join date : 2011-09-19

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PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 8:45 am

Hi 90th

As I understand it - the boxes were natural wood colour, and would have weathered to some extent or other. The metal lining inside, plus the internal lid are copper.

Bill
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: Biscuit Boxes    Biscuit Boxes EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 8:58 am

Thanks Bill , much appeciated .
Cheers 90th. Salute 
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snowyowl



Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-07-17
Age : 79
Location : Prince Edward Island, Canada

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PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 2:02 pm

Thank you.   That is exactly the information that I was looking for.     The only thing that I need now are the dimensions.      Just for a little background, I'm working on a diorama of part of the fight at Rorke's Drift using the W Britain figures but am building anything that I can.     I suspect that the mealie bags and biscuit boxes sold by Britain's are too small.     My reading leads me to understand that the biscuit box wall was only two boxes high not the three boxes often illustrated.    That means that to supply any protection the boxes had to be sizable.
Anyway, thanks for the help.
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bill cainan



Posts : 219
Join date : 2011-09-19

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PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 3:22 pm

Snowyowl

Dimensions of biscuit box:

Have a look at the various pics and fit these measurements to those pics.

Overall - 21" tall, 16.5" square
The two battens on the side for supporting the rope handles are 17" x 2.25" each and are 6" apart (ONE SIDE ONLY).
The lid on the top is 9.5" x 9.5", inside a square 10.75" X 10.75". there is a brass ring handle on one side of the square
The internal copper lid is 8 and 3/8" in diameter.

Bill
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snowyowl



Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-07-17
Age : 79
Location : Prince Edward Island, Canada

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PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 3:48 pm

Thanks again! You have been a great help.
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The1stLt

The1stLt

Posts : 285
Join date : 2010-09-06
Location : Kittery, Maine USA

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PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyFri Jul 19, 2013 8:47 pm

Sending along a few photos featuring the Boxes I'm using to create my Biscuit Box Wall and my Mealie Bag Walls. The Mealie Bag Walls by Conte which I've modified.........The 1stLt.

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snowyowl



Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-07-17
Age : 79
Location : Prince Edward Island, Canada

Biscuit Boxes Empty
PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptySat Jul 20, 2013 1:30 pm

That's really well done. How long have you been working on it?
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Ulundi

Ulundi

Posts : 558
Join date : 2012-05-05

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PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptySat Jul 20, 2013 9:21 pm

Only the best from the 1st Lt!
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The1stLt

The1stLt

Posts : 285
Join date : 2010-09-06
Location : Kittery, Maine USA

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PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptySat Jul 20, 2013 9:34 pm

Since December of 2006 snowyowl. the attached photos feature it's set up showing my Conte Wagons defending the south wall and followed by showing My WB wagons and mealie bag walls also used defendig the south wall.............The 1stLt


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90th

90th

Posts : 9956
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Age : 63
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptySat Jul 20, 2013 10:24 pm

Excellent work Lt , we wouldnt expect anything less !
Cheers 90th. Salute 
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snowyowl



Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-07-17
Age : 79
Location : Prince Edward Island, Canada

Biscuit Boxes Empty
PostSubject: Re: Biscuit Boxes   Biscuit Boxes EmptyMon Jul 22, 2013 1:19 pm

Most impressive. I have finally made a decision regarding the biscuit boxes and have departed from the authentic design. The reason that i have done so is because my attempts to be authentic just weren't working. Dundeeboer's information was excellent but I found it really tough to make something in 1/32 scale based on real boxes.
On to the next challenge - how to make wagon wheels.
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