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Film Zulu Dawn:Lt. Col. Pulleine: His Lordship is of the cetain opinion that it's far too difficult an approach to be chosen by the Zulu command.Col. Durnford: Yes, well... difficulty never deterred a Zulu commander.
 
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 How True!

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24th

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PostSubject: How True!    Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:10 pm

"Zulu Dawn failed because it negated any claim to nobleness by giving no real credit to the Zulu warriors who appear to win only because of red-coated incompetence, rather than the Zulu's brilliantly innovative battle-field tactics"
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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:16 am

24th wrote:
"Zulu Dawn failed because it negated any claim to nobleness by giving no real credit to the Zulu warriors who appear to win only because of red-coated incompetence, rather than the Zulu's brilliantly innovative battle-field tactics"
I just don't think anybody not already steeped in the subject could understand what was happening in that movie. It needs to be made as a multi-episode miniseries for an audience to get a grip on the many, many interesting characters.
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Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:32 pm

6pdr.

Yes I agree with you, and I think that a factual series of the whole AZW would be a great thing to be watched and recorded. It would help in giving the proper information to the general public about how the invasion was started by Frere and Chelmsford before the British government knew about it.  

Both films could do with remaking ('Z' and 'ZD'), and although 'ZD'' was a little more accurate than the almost fictional 'Z', it still left a lot to be desired in giving the public a true picture of events.

The big problem with film makers is that they have a very bad habit of distorting the facts, or (as Baker did), completely alter them, and by doing this, it gave a very false impression to the public that has since turned into a myth, so any future remake should put right that wrong done by Baker and give the public the truth.

Another way of giving the public the true facts, would be for a complete documentary series on the AZW. Again, this could start with the Frere/Chelmsford conniving and invasion, and go through all the various aspects of the war right up to Ulundi and the capture of King Cetchwayo, I should think that would be a series well worth watching and recording, and it would at long last give the public the real name of the regiment with the English county title that fought at both iSandlwana and Rorke's Drift, that being the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, whos proud name has sadly been ignored or deliberately excluded for many, many years, even though it held this name longer than any other name in its entire history.
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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:46 pm

24th,6pdr,Mr Cooper, agree  something
along the lines of Shaka the mini
series, about time i watched that
again, but i have to pick my time to
watch it it on the big screen in the
lounge,i need a clear three hour's with-
out her indoor's or two of my sons
pulling their collective tripe's.. i find
that i can no longer ' hog ' the main tv
anymore, and the remote control which
was mine through divine right, has been
wrenched from my grasp and more often
than not resides opposite me,not 5 feet
away in injun country. Sad  i would rather
tackle a raging Zulu warrior than ' her ' Wink 

Got to pick my Zulu moment's carefully..
but i had to laugh when chris packham was
on celebrity mastermind on RD. my wife
and son's rattled the answers off quicker
than me, i was not best pleased,then had
to laugh, subliminal brainwashing was in
place and working a treat, Very Happy  cheers
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impi

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:33 pm

The film certainly gave a good account of a Welsh Regiment! Not getting involved 
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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:37 pm

impi, your a bad man. Not getting involved  Very Happy 
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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:51 am

Mr M. Cooper wrote:
It would help in giving the proper information to the general public about how the invasion was started by Frere and Chelmsford before the British government knew about it.
I don't think a historical fiction approach is ever going to meet with the approval of a purist such as yourself Mr. Cooper. The first commandment of commercial TV is not to accurately inform but to entertain. There is so much connective tissue that would have to be cut away to make it fit the right format that I think you will be disappointed. There is no real controversy about Frere so I don't see that as a hurdle. But I think there would have to be a lot of simplifications and omissions to hold the average viewers interest. Not that it couldn't be done -- with the proper episodic approach -- high production values and a star studded cast...it could work.

But the big, big problem I see is a lack of female roles...and precious few excuses to make them disrobe. No, I'm not speaking tongue in cheek here -- that's become ever more necessary to secure a big budget from the cable franchises etc...and on the British/Colonial side about the best you are going to do is cast Bishop Colenso's daughters. At least one of them was nicknamed Fanny, right?
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90th

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PostSubject: How True !   Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:22 am

Hi 6pdr.
From memory Frere had at least two daughters , happy to be corrected , that makes 3 including '' Fanny '' LOL.
90th No 


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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:28 am

Wasn't there a big Welsh girl who sang men of Harlech or something?
Surprised 
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Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:46 pm

Yes it did impi, but it was a totally false account.
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Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:33 pm

6pdr.

I know that films are meant to entertain and that documetaries are 'supposed' to be 'facts', but mixing the facts with fiction is not the way to go about things, especially when it results in fiction replacing the facts and creating a myth. Film makers nearly always have to add a little 'girly' distraction to films nowadays, and most of it is totally unnecessary, and is just 'eye candy' to get red blooded males watching. In any films based on the AZW war, it would be very difficult to find roles for females, other than the wives of, or the daughters of, etc, morality and decency were a lot stricter in those days and standards were a lot higher than today (shame we can't live up to better standards these days), however, there's always the topless zulu dancing girls to fall back on.

There has been many a good film spoilt by the introduction of females that are invoved in some sort of soppy love story with the hero, then instead of getting the 'action and adventure' we were watching the film for, we get 'action' of a different kind, and what was billed as being a battle in WW2 turns into a battle for who can bed some floozy.

A documentary series giving all the true facts would be a lot better than a load of fictitious bunkum.
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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:51 pm

springy mate, yes, she was my great aunt Bronwen.  

However, she didn't sing it in the film (nor at RD), she sang it when she was in the choir in;

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobywll-llantysilliogogogoch

agree
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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:58 pm

90th wrote:
Hi 6pdr.
From memory Frere had at least two daughters , happy to be corrected ,  that makes 3 including  '' Fanny '' LOL.
90th No
OK, Francis, Harriet, and Agnes...nicknamed Fanny, Nell and...Agnes? Salute Very Happy 
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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:31 pm

Mr M. Cooper wrote:
however, there's always the topless zulu dancing girls to fall back on.
Not sure filmmakers can get away with this any longer.  It has to be the same sauce for the goose, gander, and anything in between or it will be picketed by somebody.

I was serious though.  It may "muck up the movie" from your point of view, but if guys can't convince their dates or significant others to attend then the film will flop.  Some of the elements for an enticing period (Victorian high) drama are present. Durnford's relationship(s) to the Colenso family is the easiest window in...and it would be easy to create a faux (probably VERY faux) love triangle on the Zulu side too, but there would need to be some creativity.
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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:23 pm

Glynn had plenty of 'women trouble', he got loads of earache (nagging) from his wife and two daughters, that's why he liked being with 'his' regiment, and he was glad when Coghill came on the scene, Glynn treat him like a son. So there you are, you could have a scenario with poor old Glynn getting an ear bashing from the three amazons, and Coghill getting the cotton wool and putting warm olive oil in Glynn's lug holes to soothe the pain. Very Happy 


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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:23 pm

Mr M. Cooper wrote:
Glynn had plenty of 'women trouble', he got loads of earache (nagging) from his wife and two daughters, that's why he liked being with 'his' regiment, and he was glad when Coghill came on the scene, Glynn treat him like a son. So there you are, you could have a scenario with poor old Glynn getting an ear bashing from the three amazons, and Coghill getting the cotton wool and putting warm olive oil in Glynn's lug holes to soothe the pain. Very Happy
Excellent ideas, Mr. Cooper...but I want one of his daughters to be a right trollop, so she can catch the odd roll in the hay with whoever. Speaking of which...and I know this would drive many here crazy...your oil in the lug holes leaves room for another type of illicit affair...

You want to cover the whole multicultural gamut...
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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:53 pm

Steady! Stand To! Wink 
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Mr M. Cooper

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:07 pm

Les.

Fix the remote control to a short length of chain attached to your seat, or move the big telly (don't forget the remote), into your study and put bolts on the door to stop intruders disturbing you while you watch Shaka or anything else on the AZW. Very Happy 

'Show 'em who's boss' agree 

Then when you come round in intensive care Shocked , you might get some 'make it up' sympathy, you can then come the 'old wounded soldier' bit and request the telly and films to be set up for you in the ward while you stay in hospital and recover. Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:39 pm

Thanks Martin, that gave me the biggest
laugh. Very Happy  Salute 
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90th

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PostSubject: How True    Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:52 am

Hi Martin.
Now tell the truth .......... did it work for you ????? LOL. Rolling Eyes 
90th Salute 
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: How True!    Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:10 am

I can imagine Martin with one of those Yellow flowery things round his head singing Land of my fathers.

Joker 
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