WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Zulu Dawn Film Lt. Col. Pulleine: Lord Chelmsford assures us that there is no way the Zulu can get around us without our knowing. Col. Durnford: Zulu generals have a nasty habit of doing the unexpected. It might be wise to picket the hills.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  PublicationsPublications  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
»  Isandlwana cultural centre
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyToday at 6:11 am by John Young

»  Corporal F.Schiess
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyYesterday at 6:38 am by barry

» My new project HELP WANTED
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptySat May 25, 2019 7:49 pm by Frank Allewell

» The Old Store and Road
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyFri May 24, 2019 3:05 pm by Frank Allewell

» Durnford's penultimate order.
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyThu May 23, 2019 10:56 am by Bill8183

» Surgeon Major Frederick Beaufort Scott - Army Medical Department
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptySat May 18, 2019 10:48 pm by Isandula

» Request - Like Lions They Fought by Robert B Edgerton
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptySat May 18, 2019 11:34 am by 1879graves

» George Hampden Whalley
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyFri May 17, 2019 5:55 pm by 1879graves

» ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyThu May 16, 2019 10:11 am by steve.333

» Bassage Diary
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyTue May 14, 2019 9:30 pm by Rory Reynolds

» Lance Sergeant James Taylor (25B/82) E Company 2nd Battalion, 24th Regiment (2nd Warwickshire),
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyMon May 13, 2019 10:28 pm by Tim Needham

» The Western Slopes
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptySun May 12, 2019 9:33 am by ymob

» Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyThu May 09, 2019 4:34 pm by ymob

» Clifford Scott
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyThu May 09, 2019 1:59 pm by Julian Whybra

» Soldiers Life and Work in South Africa - Durnford
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyTue May 07, 2019 9:16 am by 90th

The Death of Lt. Frith, 17th Lancers.
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Screenshot-20190305-200950-Gallery-181x240 At eZungeni, Zulu War of 1879" original painting by Hermanus Willem Koekkoek (1869-1929) (Isandula Collection)
Isandlwana & Rorke's Drift 22nd January 2019
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Top posters
90th
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
littlehand
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
ADMIN
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
1879graves
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
rusteze
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
John
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
impi
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Top posting users this month
Frank Allewell
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
ymob
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
John Young
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
1879graves
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
SRB1965
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
rusteze
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
90th
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
Tim Needham
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_leftPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th BarPte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Bar_right 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.1
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 3
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.

Share
 

 Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th

Go down 
AuthorMessage
kopie



Posts : 249
Join date : 2013-06-01

Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty
PostSubject: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th   Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptySun Jan 12, 2014 7:17 pm

Chard categorically states "6 members of the 1-24th" in his first report as having been survivors of the RD action.
In his second report, he goes further and names the six. One is the surviving 1083 Pte M .Jenkins, that we now all believe to have been incorrectly identified as the "wrong" Jenkins, because 1083 was killed at Isandhlwana.

Or was he?

Let's assume for a moment that Chard was not entirely the bumbling fart that so many have assumed he was.
Let us say that the Jenkins who saved his life at the wall REALLY WAS 1083 Jenkins, and Chard made no mistake in his identification.

What proof is there that 1083 Watkin Jenkins was actually killed at Isandhlwana, other than the fact that we can find little record that he is still with us after 23-1-1879, other than the Chard roll which quite clearly indicates 1083 Jenkins was alive on the 23rd.

What if after the action at RD, return to PMB etc, that he meets and falls for a nice SA girl, deserts, changes his name and lives happily ever after in Natal?
Back to top Go down
kopie



Posts : 249
Join date : 2013-06-01

Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th   Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyMon Jan 13, 2014 5:24 pm

I note no one has responded to this Q in almost 24 hours.

I apologise if this question was a remarkably stupid one, so I won't be offended if the thread is deleted Admin!
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2136
Join date : 2011-09-12

Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th   Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyMon Jan 13, 2014 5:32 pm

I'll respond.  The man you seek appears in the Isandhlwana casualty return.  He no longer appears in the pay and muster rolls either - a pretty positive sign that he was no more - otherwise he'd be claiming backpay!
A more interesting but similar question involves Corp. W. Anderson of the NNC kia at RD.  There was also a Corp. W. Anderson kia at Isandhlwana.  Were they two different men?  Or was Anderson (perhaps a patient) kia at RD but his battalion commanding officer assumed he had been kia with his coy at Isandhlwana and entered him among the casualties? Were they in fact one and the same man but he was entered on both Isandhlwana and RD casualty rolls?  I've never been able to resolve this with absolute certainty.
Back to top Go down
kopie



Posts : 249
Join date : 2013-06-01

Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th   Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyMon Jan 13, 2014 7:07 pm

Thank you for that response Julian!

wrt Watkin Jenkins, he certainly disappears after the 22nd January. Clearly, if he had fought at and survived RD, as implied in the Chard (and other earlier rolls), we would expect to have seen him on the pay rolls etc as you say.
My question was that if those early rolls WERE correct, and he had gone AWOL soon after the defence of RD, would there be any record of that? Or would his disappearance have been assumed, much more conveniently, to have been KIA Isandhlwana?
Far fetched I know, even more so given the weight of evidence that shows the surviving Jenkins to have been David and far, far more likely that a mistake had been made in the number assigned to this survivor in the earliest roll of defenders; but just a bit of fun!
Back to top Go down
kopie



Posts : 249
Join date : 2013-06-01

Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th   Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyMon Jan 13, 2014 7:12 pm

wrt Cpl Anderson, a very interesting question, yes.
Are there any muster rolls, pay rolls or other records of any kind relating to the NNC of this period? Who is the leading authority on the NNC? Often if there are two people of the same name, they are usually distinguished in some way in writte records. Cheers
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2136
Join date : 2011-09-12

Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th   Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyMon Jan 13, 2014 8:00 pm

Well, yes, it would have gone on his service record.  He would have been pursued as having gone AWOL but realistically there was nowhere he could go AWOL, not starting from RD or Isandhlwana.
Re Anderson - distinctions were not made in colonial records in the same way as they were in British ones.  Thompson is pretty much top dog on Africans and the NNC but the authority varies according to the colonial unit.


Last edited by Julian Whybra on Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
John

John

Posts : 2555
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 56
Location : UK

Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th   Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyMon Jan 13, 2014 8:13 pm

kopie wrote:
Thank you for that response Julian!

wrt Watkin Jenkins, he certainly disappears after the 22nd January. Clearly, if he had fought at and survived RD, as implied in the Chard (and other earlier rolls), we would expect to have seen him on the pay rolls etc as you say.
My question was that if those early rolls WERE correct, and he had gone AWOL soon after the defence of RD, would there be any record of that? Or would his disappearance have been assumed, much more conveniently, to have been KIA Isandhlwana?
Far fetched I know, even more so given the weight of evidence that shows the surviving Jenkins to have been David and far, far more likely that a mistake had been made in the number assigned to this survivor in the earliest roll of defenders; but just a bit of fun!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Good point Kopie!! Jenkins attempted to let his family believe he had been at Isandlwana?
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra



Posts : 2136
Join date : 2011-09-12

Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th   Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyTue Jan 14, 2014 10:13 am

John
How exactly? Was he clairvoyant?
Back to top Go down
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Posts : 2572
Join date : 2009-04-24

Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th   Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th EmptyTue Jan 14, 2014 5:53 pm

John is not two different people? His name is "1083 Watkin Jenkins"
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th   Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: