WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:Lt. Col. Pulleine: His Lordship is of the cetain opinion that it's far too difficult an approach to be chosen by the Zulu command.Col. Durnford: Yes, well... difficulty never deterred a Zulu commander.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  GalleryGallery  PublicationsPublications  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
Colonel R.T. Glyn, 1/24th Regt. kwaSokhexe, Ulundi
[Mac and Shad](Isandula Collection)
Secrets Of The Dead The Mystery Of Zulu Dawn
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Top posters
90th
 
littlehand
 
Frank Allewell
 
ADMIN
 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
 
John
 
Mr M. Cooper
 
1879graves
 
impi
 
rusteze
 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Top posting users this month
Drummer Boy 14
 
Frank Allewell
 
rusteze
 
90th
 
ADMIN
 
SRB1965
 
Julian Whybra
 
ymob
 
1879graves
 
xhosa2000
 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable.5
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 4
The ammunition question
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.

Share | 
 

 Rorke's Drift

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 912
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:18 pm

Hiya Simon, please mate no! you did not upset me in any way..
i am without ego!. reading my reply to you i feel that as you
don't know me you might have found my post patronising, with
the ' there was a massacre ' blah blah.. not my intention at all.
i am not a Chard ' groupie '.. i felt he was an honest man who
did his duty on the day, as part of a tremendous team effort.
he earned the cross for his action's directing the men under his
command during the twelve hour's the defence lasted.. in the
aftermath in his initial report he collated the names of the men
who had in some way distinguished them self's and added them
to his report..Chelmsford realised he had made no mention of
himself so added him to the list.

Again Chard was maligned by both Wood and Buller they reported
that ' the defence was brilliant and stuborn. but the puzzle to them
was....who was the man who organised it... for it showed
a genius and quickness.. neither of which were apparently qualifi-
cation's of Chard, a dull heavy man, scarcely ever able to do his
regular work. ( IK )

You do not and have not provoked me, i just wish people such as
your self would post more.. cheers xhosa Les
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 912
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:38 pm

And Simon i forgot to add, yeah mate..40 odd years
seems about right, if this subject grips you there
really is no getting away from it, i remember coll well,
could not fault his enthusiasm for all things AWD, but
i guess he was driven off by those whose patience was
stretched.. what i personally could not forgive him, was
his confession ( with no contrition ) that he actually
threw books into the bin if they did not smell right to him!
now that is to much for me to take.. good job there's a word
for that.. anathema. but he was harmless.
Back to top Go down
ymob

avatar

Posts : 1948
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : france

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:19 pm

Frank,
Thank for your answer.
About Steve, I read with many interest his post on this thread about his change of opinion of Glyn.
If his discovery has a link with Glyn...exciting!
To my knowledge Steve has never written an essay: I'm sure he would do a good job!
Frank and Steve, time to work hard! (with a translation of your work in French:Frank, I noticed your remarkable progress in French Wink )

Cheers

Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2219
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:23 pm

Frank's earlier use of the word "we" needs to be understood as the royal we - as in "we are not amused". Whilst on his latest safari he has clearly wrestled a stash of dusty manuscripts from the lair of a great bull elephant that was once the personal pet of  Sir Henry Bartle Frere - that elephant has forgotten nothing!

As for me, I have a modest piece in Julian's up-coming new edition of Studies in the AZW 1879 but I will say no more about that now, it should appear in a few months. On a different topic, I want to do some more work on Glyn, particularly in relation to his exploits on the Eastern Cape. I have a couple of books on order to widen my reading first but I have a feeling that his rather inexplicable attitude during the run up to Isandhlwana and subsequently may have its roots in the events of 1878. But we shall see. Still lots of fun to be had.

Steve
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

avatar

Posts : 6470
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 70
Location : Cape Town South Africa

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Steve you missed a glorious opportunity there, for 'Stash' read 'Trunk"
' Very Happy
Back to top Go down
rusteze

avatar

Posts : 2219
Join date : 2010-06-02

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:43 pm

I should employ you as my agent.
Back to top Go down
John

avatar

Posts : 2527
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 55
Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:12 pm

xhosa2000 wrote:
xhosa2000 wrote:
Chard was an Engineer! not an infantry officer of the line,
he came to build.. not destroy.

Would this 'job description' have saved him had the Zulus caught him..

Hi SRB1965... it's a what if!.. what happened was that there was a
massacre at Isandhlwana and that was followed up by an attack on
the mission station.. all known details are recorded. what if's and
unsubstantiated theory's and ' working hypothesises ' are all very
well and can occupy a certain amount of leeway, but usually to no
end! the known facts are all we have.. some of the posts above can
be mildly diverting but they usually trail off into nothing of any con-
sequence. i picked up on the post's where Chard's temperament and
performance was questioned, by people who had no business to do
so, only repeating what was said by some contemporary's. i ask all
to judge Chard vc by what he did do.          cheers xhosa

The luck of the draw, was the colour of your Jacket!
Back to top Go down
ymob

avatar

Posts : 1948
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : france

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:17 pm

Steve,
Sincères félicitations.
I'm looking forward to read your "modest piece"of work in "Studies Zulu War IV" and your study about Glyn whose personality is known essentially through the writings of the "bitter" Clery.

I.E. Nice description of Frank, "the elephant whispered".

Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
John

avatar

Posts : 2527
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 55
Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:30 pm

Chard kind of had an idea something was going to kick off.

""An N.C.O. of the 24th Regiment lent me a field glass, which was a very good one, and I also looked with my own, and could see the enemy moving on the distant hills, and apparently in great force. Large numbers of them moving to my left, until the lion hill of Isandhlwana, on my left as I looked at them, hid them from my view. The idea struck me that they might be moving in the direction between the camp and Rorke's Drift and prevent my getting back, and also they might be going to make a dash at the ponts."
Back to top Go down
littlehand

avatar

Posts : 7050
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 49
Location : Down South.

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:21 pm

ymob wrote:
Bonjour à tous,
First remark; About Spalding.

I wrote in my first post: "If the departure of Spalding was really around 2 p.m."
This point has not been contested by any of you but both Ian Knight ("Zulu Rising" / p.425) and Neil Thornton  ("RD a new perspective" / p.30) seem to think that  Spalding left the mission station in the late morning.

I am not sure but it seems to me that it is a timing problem (concerning Spalding) for the continuation of the events in the afternoon....

Cheers

Frédéric



Frederic if you have the book "For Queen & Country. Take alook at pages 35-36 regardig your comment about timing problems.
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9341
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Rorke's Drift    Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:45 am

Hi Frank
As you mentioned your storm yesterday it made our news coverage , didn't look good ! , as at last night there were 8 fatalities !.
90th Sad Sad Sad
Back to top Go down
SRB1965



Posts : 135
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 52
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:39 am

John wrote:

The luck of the draw, was the colour of your Jacket!

Hmmm, I never have been really convinced of the 'eat up the red soldiers' idea.....Yes apparently the officers who survived would/could have been wearing patrol jackets (but they also had something big and strong between their legs) but many more who were killed were not 'red' soldiers....

Maybe (or maybe not) the red jackets would have made the fleeing men easier to spot (I'm not even sure I hold with that idea).

The most ridiculous thing I once read that was a couple of NNC NCOs where found with lamp black on their faces....

But I agree it was all down to luck.....and the time you left Isandlwana

Cheers

Simon
Back to top Go down
ymob

avatar

Posts : 1948
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : france

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:29 am

littlehand wrote:
ymob wrote:
Bonjour à tous,
First remark; About Spalding.





Frederic if you have the book "For Queen & Country. Take alook at pages 35-36 regardig your comment about timing problems.

Bonjour Littlehand,

Thank you very much.

Wilfired Heaton (24th) diary's : "Wednesday 22 January 1879
Rainforth 's Coy left [Helpmekaar] at 2.30 ours just after 3. Met Spalding outside (...)".

Comment from the author (extract):
"Preciselly where they met up is not quite clear, s the word "outside" could mean anywhere from the Officers Mess at Helpmekaar to somewhere on the track to RD.
In his own report, submitted after the battle, Major Spalding states that he arrived at Helpmekaar at 3.45 p.m. where he met both Coy's but there would seem to be a discrepancy here. The 2 Coys were not under any orders to wait for Major Spalding, so they had no reason to delay. If Wilfried left at the time that he states in his diary, then they would have been about 3 miles from Helpmekaar on the track to RD.when they met up with Major Spalding at 3.45 p.m.. Spalding however, reports that he met the Coys at Helpmekaar at that time".

Cheers
Frédéric

Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 912
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:15 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 912
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:25 pm

This image will do here, i'm not sure where i previously
posted it. damn again pb. this is the clearest one iv'e
seen, from the Times book of War.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 912
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:28 pm

Hmm.. a tad big.. but if anyone down loads it,
it will make more sense.
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 912
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:08 pm

Another great view of the Drift.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9341
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Rorke's Drift    Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:59 am

Hi Les
This pic was taken from Kwa Sinquindi , I managed to climb most of it back in May , if you'd like the pics I took feel free to ask , I'll send them to you and you can post them if you wish .
Cheers Mate
90th Very Happy Salute
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 912
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:18 pm

Nice one Gary. what a spectacular view!, yeah mate after photo bucket,
wee need lots more images to replace what has been lost. i'm happy to
post anything for you. imgur is so easy to manage and a lot quicker
than pb. just e mail me mate... cheers xhosa
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9341
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Rorke's Drift    Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:10 pm

Hi Les
Will email you the pics from KwaSinquindi after work tomorrow afternoon .
90th agree
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 912
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:54 pm

Okey Dokey, take it easy. Salute
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 912
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:34 am

Image's courtesy of Gary..

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Looking to Rorke's Drift ,
1/ Shiyane ( Left) , RD ( Centre ) , Kwa Siquindi ( Middle Right )

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

2/ Looking to KwaSinquindi RD is basically behind me.

Many thank's 90th. xhosa
Back to top Go down
90th

avatar

Posts : 9341
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 61
Location : Melbourne, Australia

PostSubject: Rorke's Drift    Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:37 am

Thanks Les
Cheers 90th Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

avatar

Posts : 912
Join date : 2015-11-24

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:25 pm

Thank's Gary.. Salute

Here are the pics from near the summit of KwaSiquindi , looking to RD , Isandlwana is in the distance , this was where Chard saw Zulu's early on the 23rd Jan . I've taken them in a Panoramic view , looking left to right as you'll notice . This is from a similar position of where the photo you posted was taken .

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

This is a magnified view from Kwasiquindi looking again to RD and Shiyane . Isandlwana in the distance .

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
Paul Lamberth



Posts : 5
Join date : 2015-08-07

PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:47 pm

Its all a matter of “timing”.
Dartnell's runner arrives at the “ camp” early hours of the morning (22nd) General is informed…”well thats it I know where my opponent is…so move the column…and he leaves “without the sound of bugle”…first light…cautiously with half of his troop to join up with the van.
Runner is sent to call up rear guard (2 hours push by horse) Durnford. Runner (Smith-Dorrien) has breakfast with Bromhead.
Chard rides up to camp to get orders…on return meets up with Durnford…”my breakfast was disturbed” (08:00 camp in defence)
Durnford has a standing breakfast with Pulleine…mid morning. So departure would be +/- 07:30 hrs
Spalding puts Chard in command…nothing will happen, and return by night fall. RD - Helpmekaar 18 km 2hrs plus by horse. Men (defenders) mention possible sighting of Spalding…last lights. G company? 12 + 6 = 18:00 hrs.? Chard: felt peckish so I retired to my tent to write a letter home. (I would say mid day then).
Attack on camp +/- mid day. Ardendorf arrives…at least 2 hours ride so if he was at the camp under attack = 14-15:00 hrs.
Activity heard to the East..guns. Lt. Curling…+/- 20 salvos fired…warning by George Shepstone. Cpt. Gardner arrives informs Pulleine “move the camp” but it is about to fall under attack. Gardiner sees Pope move to right flank…towards Durford’s donga…this equates towards 13:00 hrs.
Reynold comes down from the hill…runner appears (sent by Gardner) Gardner arrives at Helpmekaar late afternoon…but Spalding was not there.  Fugitives passing by and Durnfords men on horse (Kambula) appear (this takes us to +/- 15:00 hrs).
Bromhead calls council  decide to “stand and fight” build defence wall - summon Chard..he takes charge…barricade the Hospital etc…more men pass…get out of here Zulus on their way. +/- 15:30.
“Here they come” Hitch…+/- 16:30

This is by no means complete but it gives an idea of timing…and one can build on it from a significant amount of reference…just join the dots. I know how long it takes to ride, run, and walk but I was not chased by 3000 Zulus.
Did Spalding know all was lost at the camp? No.
Was Chard aware? No. but he knew that something was on (initially) that changed at +/- 15:00 hrs - cool calm and collected he prepared defence…and did not question Bromhead’s stance. Stevenson’s departure did not phase Chard…he called for a fall back position.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Rorke's Drift   

Back to top Go down
 
Rorke's Drift
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: