WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» 100,000 posts!
Zulu shield question EmptySun Mar 17, 2024 11:14 am by ADMIN

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
Zulu shield question EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:47 pm by jgregory

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
Zulu shield question EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
Zulu shield question EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
Zulu shield question EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» British rations and morale
Zulu shield question EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra

» Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private Hagan
Zulu shield question EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN

» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana
Zulu shield question EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» William J Hoare 24th Regiment??
Zulu shield question EmptySun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash

» Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young

» Philip Price
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
Zulu shield question EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra

» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
Zulu shield question EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:47 am by Julian Whybra

» About the second invasion
Zulu shield question EmptyTue Feb 20, 2024 9:14 pm by 90th

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
Zulu shield question EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

» Watford band boys killed at iSandlwana
Zulu shield question EmptyFri Feb 16, 2024 8:26 am by Julian Whybra

» Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot
Zulu shield question EmptySun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 am by 90th

» Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 9:55 pm by ADMIN

» The anniversary of 22nd January in 2024
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 3:51 pm by luke1997

» What was the distance?
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 8:46 am by Stefaan

» Mrs Henry Hook
Zulu shield question EmptyTue Feb 06, 2024 3:14 pm by Kenny

» "With 6 good riflemen"
Zulu shield question EmptyMon Feb 05, 2024 2:30 pm by Mr M. Cooper

» What was G company supposed to do?
Zulu shield question EmptySun Feb 04, 2024 9:31 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private 1445 Charles Meates 17th Lancers and his brother William Wylie
Zulu shield question EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 10:07 pm by John Young

» South Africa Medal With Clasp To Pvt J. Salter 3/60th
Zulu shield question EmptyFri Feb 02, 2024 3:12 pm by Foody

» Weatherleys Border Horse Flag
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 01, 2024 9:40 pm by Herbie

» Edward Plantagenet Kemeys-Tynte
Zulu shield question EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:06 pm by Edjg

» How many started?
Zulu shield question EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 10:10 am by Julian Whybra

» Firing Line formation
Zulu shield question EmptyMon Jan 22, 2024 2:32 pm by Julian Whybra

» Why did Maj. Spalding have to go ?
Zulu shield question EmptyWed Jan 17, 2024 9:40 pm by Stefaan

» Grape-shot at close range.
Zulu shield question EmptyMon Jan 15, 2024 7:42 am by SRB1965

» Books Hlobane & Kambula
Zulu shield question EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 10:08 am by John Young

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
March 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Zulu shield question Bar_leftZulu shield question BarZulu shield question Bar_right 
Dash
Zulu shield question Bar_leftZulu shield question BarZulu shield question Bar_right 
Hobbes
Zulu shield question Bar_leftZulu shield question BarZulu shield question Bar_right 
Bill8183
Zulu shield question Bar_leftZulu shield question BarZulu shield question Bar_right 
SRB1965
Zulu shield question Bar_leftZulu shield question BarZulu shield question Bar_right 
ADMIN
Zulu shield question Bar_leftZulu shield question BarZulu shield question Bar_right 
jgregory
Zulu shield question Bar_leftZulu shield question BarZulu shield question Bar_right 
Tig Van Milcroft
Zulu shield question Bar_leftZulu shield question BarZulu shield question Bar_right 
Rob Herrick
Zulu shield question Bar_leftZulu shield question BarZulu shield question Bar_right 
90th
Zulu shield question Bar_leftZulu shield question BarZulu shield question Bar_right 
New topics
» 100,000 posts!
Zulu shield question EmptySun Mar 17, 2024 11:14 am by ADMIN

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
Zulu shield question EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 8:27 pm by Rob Herrick

» British rations and morale
Zulu shield question EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:24 pm by Hobbes

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
Zulu shield question EmptyFri Feb 23, 2024 2:23 am by peterfarrell

» About the second invasion
Zulu shield question EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 9:53 pm by Hobbes

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
Zulu shield question EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 15, 2024 4:46 pm by Will M

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
Zulu shield question EmptyThu Feb 15, 2024 1:24 am by ADMIN

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Zulu shield question

Go down 
4 posters
AuthorMessage
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1198
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Zulu shield question Empty
PostSubject: Zulu shield question   Zulu shield question EmptyWed Sep 13, 2017 8:47 pm

Hi

Has anyone ever had their hands on a Zulu shield?

If so - just how 'rigid' are they? I have read that they are not that thick and obviously being 'leather' I figured they would be a bit flimsy.

I have always been fascinated by the (supposed) 'shield flirt' move invented by Shaka, I perfected a version many years ago, when I was in a Dark Age re-enactment group but of course, those shields were wooden and rigid.

Is it possible that he told his men to make more offensive use of the shield but nothing more than battering the enemy's shield to one side, with no fancy 'flirt' and writers have invented the 'hook and stab'

Cheers

Sime


Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10881
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Zulu shield question Empty
PostSubject: Zulu Shield Question    Zulu shield question EmptyThu Sep 14, 2017 10:33 am

Hi Sime
I have 3 of them , one is from that era , the other two are later versions although still old , they aren't flimsy as the leather has and does harden up .
Obviously not effective against any type of firearm , but certainly strong enough to push away another shield , or deflect a spear thrust I imagine .
90th Salute
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Zulu shield question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu shield question   Zulu shield question EmptyThu Sep 14, 2017 3:06 pm

Sime
The 'hook and thrust' is mentioned in a couple of the early settlers works. Andrew Smith and Febana spring to mind as well as EA Ritter. As Gary says they are pretty hard. Last year two of my delightful little grandkids decide my 1870 shield would make a perfect sledge to be pulled around the garden on. And it did, they didn't see the funny side of Grandad chasing them around the lawn with a knob Kerrie though, strange little things.

Regards
PS the shield survived unscathed, the grandkids didn't !
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10881
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Zulu shield question Empty
PostSubject: Zulu Shield Question    Zulu shield question EmptyFri Sep 15, 2017 5:39 am

Joker Joker Joker . I can imagine Frank , you might've needed to be admitted ...again !!! Suspect Mad Mad Mad
90th Joker
Back to top Go down
24th foot

24th foot


Posts : 43
Join date : 2012-06-27
Age : 70
Location : Selsdon Surrey

Zulu shield question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu shield question   Zulu shield question EmptyFri Sep 15, 2017 9:55 pm

Hi SRB1965

There is a description out there of a single handed encounter between a Zulu warrior and a British officer at Isandlwana. I think you will find it in The Zulu War Then and Now by the two Ians. It describes how the officer attempted to strike the warrior on the head with his sword, but each time he ducked down behind his shield. This was a trick . He tempted the hapless soldier by leaving his head exposed a bit longer and sure enough he brought the sword down sharply. The trick worked and the shield was brought up in time and the blade lodged firmly in the hide holding it tight. This of course left the officers body momentarily exposed, but it was enough for the Zulu to strike and kill him. The Zulu would probably never have met a sword wielding opponent before but undoubtedly years of single combat experience meant his instinct was enough to prevail.
Blood chilling stuff.
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1198
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Zulu shield question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu shield question   Zulu shield question EmptySat Sep 16, 2017 9:29 am

Thanks 24th foot, I will see if I can find it.

You will probably find that the Zulu (depending on age etc) had no (or very little) 'live fire' single combat experience....it was probably his first go (as more than likely, it was the officers first hand to hand encounter too).

There had been little conflict in the past 20 odd years....part from between themselves (the uThulwana vs iNgobabmakhosi scuffle).

I'm a firm believer that most things such as that are down to luck and that despite the Hollywood love of extended fight scenes, one slip up or mistake and the fight was over......there's a scene in Zulu (just before the action focuses on Nigel Green/Bourne), were a Zulu is feinting at a 24th soldier, who gets his bayonet in the shield and gets spiked.

I wonder how much 'practise' the Zulus would have undergone....I spose their love of stick fighting would have helped.

Once again, cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
24th foot

24th foot


Posts : 43
Join date : 2012-06-27
Age : 70
Location : Selsdon Surrey

Zulu shield question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu shield question   Zulu shield question EmptySat Sep 16, 2017 10:58 pm

Hi Sime
Yes the Zulu culture was very combat driven, so stick fighting ( I watched it earlier this year but I'm ashamed to say I didn't participate) from a young age was excellent training. You are probably right that it may well have been the officers first real up close and personal life or death combat as well. It's interesting to see how the clash of cultures between spear and shield and sword matched up. The sword was the result of thousands of years of development and I doubt there was any training on how to deal with spear and shield. The Roman legionary with the earlier version would have known precisely what to do. I can't help thinking how the officer in this encounter must have felt when his sword was pulled to the side leaving his whole body exposed to an assegai. In a split second he knew that everything he had known in life was ending and he had been defeated by a naked warrior.
Regards
Lindsay
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1198
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Zulu shield question Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu shield question   Zulu shield question EmptySun Sep 17, 2017 8:03 am

Hi Lindsay,

If you think about it, the way Zulus used the assagai, (usually underarm), its general construction (short haft/shaft and large blade), it was in essence a 'stabbing sword' (but without having to use so much metal), which could be part of the problem with the combat....one was using a slashing weapon, which the shield either through design (or strangely through a weakness - the fact the bladed weapon could damage it and get lodged) was able to deal with. The officer would probably have been no worse off with Martini and bayonet.

Its the same principle with say, Gauls and Romans...slashing sword vs stabbing sword (the gladius could slash as the Gallic swords could stab the there were primarily used, as described), albeit both parties were shielded, its all about controlling or dictating the fight and its easier to do that, if fighting in a controlled manner.

I have (in wargaming circles) maintained for a number of years the most important piece of 'armour' ever invented by man, was the shield......it was cheap to make, effective against missiles or in HtH, could be used in combat and did not suffer from the concussive effect that some weapons could cause on armour alone. If you think about it most cultures, used one at some point in their history, until the advent of effective missile weapons (crossbow, longbow, firearm) when shields went out of use and armour quality/design got better (briefly until ceasing to be used)

I get really vexed (in movies/TV shows) when combatants seem to carry a shield 'just for laughs'....the ideal position for it is between yourself and the enemy......I struggle to get my son to adhere to this idea....he continually leads with his foam cutlass and has his 'Warwick Castle' shield behind him......maybe he will be a fencer....

Back to topic, though, I suppose that once the officer had to draw his revolver - something had gone wrong and once it got to sword work - something had gone very wrong (unless he was gesticulating with the said sword).

I spose if the Zulus had lots of good wood available and a culture of woodworking (plank cutting), their shields would have been wood....

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
 
Zulu shield question
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Zulu Shield
» Has anyone ever made a Zulu battle shield?
» Zulu shield and spear from Ulundi battlefield.

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: ZULU REGIMENTS & CORPS ZULU WAR 1879 ATTIRE AND WEAPONS-
Jump to: