Latest topics | » 1409 Pte David Lloyd, Defender of Rorke's DriftToday at 8:48 pm by Julian Whybra » The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snakeYesterday at 9:36 am by Hobbes » Anson A. Mayer/MaherTue Apr 23, 2024 7:10 pm by cmeghen » Late Father's Militaria CollectionSun Apr 21, 2024 2:16 pm by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:28 am by Eddie » Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native ContingentSat Apr 20, 2024 9:26 am by SRB1965 » Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young » No. 985. PTE. EDWARD READ. 2-24 Regt. (South Wales Borders).Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:12 pm by Julian Whybra » Private Willis 2/24th Regiment his letter from South AfricaSat Apr 13, 2024 2:49 pm by 1879graves » Sickness among Crealock's menFri Apr 12, 2024 4:52 pm by Hobbes » Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse ArtilleryTue Apr 09, 2024 5:20 pm by Kenny » Brevet Major W.R.B. ChamberlinSun Apr 07, 2024 5:44 pm by Jager1 » Private 1941 Samuel MacClue / McClune 1/24th RegimentSun Apr 07, 2024 3:11 pm by Dash » Sergeant W E Warren RA - VeteranSun Apr 07, 2024 10:50 am by DavidS » "With 6 good riflemen"Sat Apr 06, 2024 5:10 pm by Hobbes » Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:17 pm by SRB1965 » Colonialism: A Moral LegacyMon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am by Julian Whybra » John Robert DunnSat Mar 30, 2024 12:09 pm by 90th » An early memorial to the Prince Imperial?Sat Mar 30, 2024 10:35 am by John Young » The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert WeatherleyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo » Writing adviceTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at largeWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash » Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu DawnTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra » 100,000 posts!Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra » Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory » Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. Fri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra » British rations and moraleMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra » Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private HaganMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and IsandlwanaWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra » William J Hoare 24th Regiment??Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash » Swinburn Carbine issue in AZWThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D » Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young » Philip Price Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra » Alfred Fairlie Henderson Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds |
April 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | | | | | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snakeWed Apr 24, 2024 3:26 pm by Hobbes » Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native ContingentSat Apr 20, 2024 12:38 am by WeekendWarrior » Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young » Late Father's Militaria CollectionThu Apr 18, 2024 3:04 pm by A Crockart » Anson A. Mayer/MaherTue Apr 16, 2024 5:28 pm by cmeghen » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:01 pm by Hobbes » Sickness among Crealock's menThu Apr 11, 2024 8:51 pm by Hobbes » Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse ArtillerySun Apr 07, 2024 9:36 pm by Hobbes » John Robert DunnSat Mar 30, 2024 11:47 am by SueSNB |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Seaman Ainsley | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
SRB1965
Posts : 1203 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Seaman Ainsley Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:25 am | |
| Hi Almost everybody (with an interest into Isandlwana) has read of the death of Seaman Ainsley....back against a wheel, hacking and slashing at the Zulus, cussing and swearing like a sailor.
But where did the story come from?
Was the event mentioned in a Zulu account?
Cheers
Simon
|
| | | Drummer Boy 14
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27
| Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:39 pm | |
| I know it is not relevant to what you are referring to but according to Milne Ainsley's body was recognized the morning of the 23rd when several men went out to search the camp. His pockets had been searched through with several photos left on the floor that Milne took. I have heard this story many times and would love to know the source Cheers Sam |
| | | Petty Officer Tom
Posts : 355 Join date : 2017-02-05 Location : Texas, U.S.A.
| Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:31 pm | |
| Simon,
I, too, have been interested in the source of the story surrounding the death of William Henry Aynsley, Signalman 2nd Class, of H.M.S. Active. After several years of research I have failed to come across any first person accounts, but I have found several accounts that were written shortly afterwards.
Gunner John Carroll, Royal Marine Artillery, who was one of HMS Active’s marines at Fort Eshowe, upon hearing of the loss of Aynsley, wrote in his diary on 1 February 1879 “one of the Actives men named Ainsly, a servant of lieut. Milne who is aide de camp to the general has been killed, six Zulu’s lying around his body with the marks of cutlass wounds.”
An article in the Glasgow Herald newspaper, March 7, 1879 quoting an extract from a private letter sent from Maritzburg, gave the following account from the disaster on January 22. “An old man, owner of some of the waggons, concealed himself amongst the packages in one of his waggons, and saw the fight. He describes the desperate way our men fought back to back until they were assegaied. He says that a sailor drew his cutlass, rushed among the Zulus, and killed five, before a man crept behind him and stabbed him.” I have a few problems with this account. I would think that Aynsley would have to have been killed before the fugitives fled the camp in order for the “old man” to survive the battle. The Zulus went through all the wagons looking for things to loot.
On 28 March 1879 Colonel Stanley, the Secretary of State for War, speaking in the House of Commons during debates on the Zulu War, stated “I will take another case, the facts of which can be vouched for by more than one person. In the fatal disaster at Isandlana two pathetic sights were seen. A blue-jacket, the servant of Lieutenant Milne, of the Navy, who was fighting against any odds, got his back to a waggon and kept off his opponents, laughing the whole time as if he were making a joke of the matter. I am sorry to say that that gallant man met with the common fate.” I would like to know who Colonel Stanley was referring to when he said “vouched for by more than one person.”
While delivering a paper on Naval Brigades to the Royal United Service Institution in 1882 Captain Fletcher Campbell, who commanded the Naval Brigade during the Zulu War made a reference to Signalman Aynsley. “A young signalman of the ‘Active’ defended himself with one (a sword-bayonet), so I have been told, at Isandula, killing four Zulus before being himself assegaied in the back by a savage who crept under the wagon against which he was standing.”
Sam,
Lt Nathaniel Newman-Davis of the Buffs, who was serving with the Mounted Infantry, came across Aynsley’s body. Newham-Davis took a number of personal items, including photographs, from the body, which he gave to Lieutenant Milne to return to Aynsley’s family. Newman-Davis also took Aynsley's cutlass, which he kept as a souvenir. Newmam-Davis later told the story about the cutlass to a boy's paper, “Chums,” around 1900.
Tom |
| | | Petty Officer Tom
Posts : 355 Join date : 2017-02-05 Location : Texas, U.S.A.
| Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:15 pm | |
| I forgot to add one more source.
There is a footnote in “The Royal Navy: A history from the Earliest Times to the Present,” Volume 7, by Sir William Laird Clowes, London, 1903 that contains the following: “The only representative of the Navy present at Isandhlwana was William Aynsley, a signalman belonging to the Active. He was seen “his back against a waggon wheel keeping the Zulus at bay with his cutlass but a Zulu crept up behind him and stabbed him through the spokes.” Hallam Parr: ‘Sketch of the Kaffir and Zulu Wars.’”
If anyone has a copy of Captain Henry Hallam Parr’s “Sketch of the Kaffir and Zulu Wars” maybe they can enlighten us.
Tom |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:27 am | |
| Hi POT HP's comments. page 221, exactly as you have posted. There are no footnotes or attributions. What I find interesting is his comment that Aynsley was 'seen'. Considering how late this incident would have taken place I would assume that it could only have been a Zulu testimony or someone who left the battle very late on. Possibly that would reduce the number of accounts to search. Cheers |
| | | SRB1965
Posts : 1203 Join date : 2017-05-13 Age : 59 Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....
| Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:30 am | |
| It does tend to be (to me) a bit of Victorian propaganda - a cunning native overcoming a powerful foe by being sneaky (a bit like the Viking holding the bridge at Stamford Bridge being humbugged by a Saxon in a swill tub)
I am not questioning the basic event but it does seem that there is too much detail.
I am inclined to think that it was one of those stories that although based on fact, went through the Army/Navy and as far as Parliament - a little like the 'Angel' of Mons or the Crucified Canadian in WWI.
I would assume that the earliest (written) account (from the Marine on the Active) would have been a bit partisan - giving 6 killed Zulus....
Maybe we'll never find the source....oh well...
Cheers
sime
|
| | | Drummer Boy 14
Posts : 2008 Join date : 2011-08-01 Age : 27
| Subject: Re: Seaman Ainsley Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:08 am | |
| Hi POT Thanks for the information If he was found with his Cutlass and several dead Zulu's around him it is possible people just presumed what occurred and this spiralled into the current story. Cheers Sam |
| | | | Seaman Ainsley | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |