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The Battle of Isandlwana: One of The Worst Defeats of The British Empire - Military History
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 William Britain's Zulu War dioramas

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SRB1965

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PostSubject: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:51 am

Some photos of my diorama work

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Based on Julians work, (in the latest essays), can anyone spot the mistake with Major Russell (assuming the officer is him).....and I don't mean he should be on a horse....?
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:47 pm

Sime,

When I saw it on the Britains’ site the figure appeared to be wearing an infantry pattern patrol jacket, rather than a R.A. one.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:03 pm

John Young wrote:
Sime,

When I saw it on the Britains’ site the figure appeared to be wearing an infantry pattern patrol jacket, rather than a R.A. one.

JY

Oh God John, I am not so clever as to know the difference between the two, something more obvious if you have read the essay on William Taylor.....

Cheers

Sime
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:24 pm

Sime,

Unfortunately Brecon were out of stock on Wednesday when I went order my copy, so I haven’t read the essay yet.

If you do a close-up on the officer figure I should be able to confirm things.

JY

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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:50 pm

Hi John

I am too waiting on stocks from the museum, they have told me that they will have stock very soon.

Salute
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:01 am

SRB
Well, I know the answer but will wait a bit longer to respond.
All
Re Museum stocks, they are indeed sold out. Another supply will be ready at the printer's on Monday and should arrive at the museum by Thurs/Fri.
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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:53 am

Hi Julian,

I guessed that you'd have spotted it...... Wink

When is Volume V due out.....I am eager to know 'what' they saw......now I know 'how' they saw it.....

Cheers

Sime
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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:08 am

Patience dear Simon, patience...I won't put a deadline on things because working with a printer/publisher means it's not always up to me, but soon.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:10 pm

Bonsoir,
About Major Russell,RA, his sword was attached to his mount, not to his belt.
Cheers
Frédéric
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Sime,

If you look carefully at the figure on Britains’ site, the figure is a line infantry officer and his sword isn’t connected to his belt either, as there are no sword slings.

JY
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:51 pm

Bonsoir Mr Young,
I am intrigued by your answer. Please, can you take a look in the " silver book", p. 64 (comment) and p.67 Plate C2 ( Capt. Younghusband).
Cordialement.
Frédéric
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:03 pm

Hi Fred/John,

Yes that was the thing I was one about, Frederic - that the model has his sword, but it was in fact on his horse.

Well, I never John.....there's naught wrong with your eyesight.....I dashed upstairs and looked - yes you are right, there's no sword slings.

John, is the main difference, in this scale, the number of rows of frogging on the chest - 4 for infantry and 5 for artillery?

Ta

Sime
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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:18 pm

Sime,

Here’s a Royal Artillery officer in a patrol jacket, circa 1879:

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(John Young Collection.)

Then an infantry officer, photographed in Pretoria, circa 1880:

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(John Young Collection.)

Both are wearing the sword belts beneath their patrol jackets so that only the sword slings appear below the skirt of the jacket.

I can give you chapter & verse on the patrol jackets from Dress Regulations, 1874
if you need them.

Frederic,

Sorry I don’t understand the point that you raise, would you mind explaining further?

Regards,

JY
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:26 pm

Bonsoir Mister Young,
I am sorry.
I wondered how you can see that "there are no sword slings".
According to the plate C2 "Photographs and memoirs confirm that the1846 pattern infantry officer's sword was carried in action by numbers of officers in 1879, the steel scabbard is slung from a waist belt worn beneath the Jacket".
Beneath the Jacket...So, you can't see the waist belt on the figurine of Russell. It's also the case with your two photographs.
I suppose, you have seen on another photograph of the figurine (Britain's site), that the "sword sling" was missing?
Cordialement.
Frédéric
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:37 pm

Frederic,

Thanks for the clarification.

If you take a look at https://www.wbritain.com/product-store/20181---british-hale-rocket-battery you can see the infantry officer is most certainly missing his sword slings.

Regards,

JY


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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:53 pm

Mr Young,
Thanks for the link and for your answer.
Effectively, you are right, the "sword slings" is missing.
Bonne soirée.
Frédéric
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:55 am

John Young wrote:

I can give you chapter & verse on the patrol jackets from Dress Regulations, 1874
if you need them

I am afraid it would be wasted on me, John, I take in information, as an oilskin absorbs water.... scratch
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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:27 pm

Another couple of dioramas, not quite finished yet.....

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Cheers

Sime
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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:50 pm

Simon,

I know it isn’t your fault but the torrie on the glengarry on the figure in the firing-line should be dark blue/black rather than red. Red torries indicate a Royal Regiment.

I have previously e-mailed Britain’s about this point but never received a reply from them.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:34 pm

Hi John,

Thanks - funny enough, I should have known that because when I painted by wargames figures, I got them right.......but TBH - I saw the Britain's figures torrie but it did not register

I'll touch the figure's Glengarry up

Ta

Sime
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ArendH



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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:55 am

Hi there,
Your detail is great -what scale are you working at? Your green and white cuff detail is excellent.
'Best
ArendH
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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:04 pm

Hi

These are ready painted William Britains 54mm (1/30th scale) figures - all I do is stick them to the bases and add some scenery.

I used to paint 25mm figures, there are some examples of my Zulu War figures, in a post called Zulu War Wargames figures - which are figures made by Black Tree Design.

I am currently working on two large scale armies (large in figure numbers) but in 10mm scale - not sure if my eyesight will hold up.....

Cheers

Simon
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ArendH



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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Yesterday at 4:24 am

Hi Simon,
Thanks for the information. I am currently working on a 1:72 scale diorama of Rorke's Drift and my eyesight is complaining about 22 mm figures which all have to be painted up.

I'd be interested to hear how you handle detail on 10 mm figures - my struggle with 22 mm is lack of brushes for that scale and sight issues. I use head magnification gear and LED-powered magnification sets but the ergonomics of working on such fine detail mean I can only handle a couple of hours of work at a time before my neck,back and shoulders have frozen up into a gnarled and twisted mess.... Good luck with your 10 mm figures.
'Best
ArendH
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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Yesterday at 7:36 am

Hi Arend,

Its all about what you need to paint......  Wink

I've been painting wargames figures for over 40 years (mainly white metal/lead ones), what I have found is I alter my painting style to suit the scale you are on.

For example on a 28mm Zulu, I would tend to paint the leather 'thongs' on the monkey tail waist covering or the charm strings but in 10mm, I wouldn't - with smaller scales you are after the mass effect of large numbers of Zulus.

I can not paint 54mm to save my life - skin tones, shading, highlighting......I'm totally awful.....

One day try this - go out into the street, hold your preferred figure at arms length between your finger and thumb......and look until you find someone (walking down the street) who is the same size as the figure in your hand (perspectively) - what detail is discernible on that person? It will be a lot less than on the figure casting.

Ok you will probably get some funny looks or get arrested.....

When I have done a Zulu unit, I will post a close up of a figure (and trust me it will be crap), then I will post a unit photo as seen on the table - hopefully they will look great.....hopefully.....

What size brushes do you use? And do you paint in enamel (Humbrol/Airfix)?

I haven't painted in big way for few years, so I am not sure how and if my project will progress......

These are some non ZW figures  that were photographed for a wargames magazine some years ago and believe me the painting is 'poor' compared to what some people can achieve.

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Some figures from an Isandlwana game at a wargames show, a while back


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Please don't feel that I am lecturing you but it is all about what effect you wish to achieve and how much time you can commit to the project.

Also its the only thing I can speak of on this forum with some 'authority'.....(oh yeah and biscuits) Joker

Cheers

Simon
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ArendH



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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Yesterday at 3:09 pm

Hi Simon,
Thanks very much for your feedback and advice....no I don't see it as lecturing - we all have different experiences and different skills and sharing these often helps to avoid making mistakes and using tried and trusted techniques. Looking at your "poor" (?) examples, I realise that I have a long way to go and perhaps I am going to be doing more "hiding in crowds" than I originally anticipated.

Here are two shots of a test "tableau" which I put together to explore grouping, the need for adapting poses and how the figures looked in a scene setting.

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You will see that I didn't manage to achieve facial colouring and features (or beards) so I still have some work to do. Your pictures do show a different perspective on that detail that I had not thought about. Thank you for that.

Yes, I paint in enamels because it is a medium I am very comfortable with - I find acrylics too messy. I look forward to your Zulu close-ups and groupings. I will get into too serious figuring posing and topographic shaping in the next week or so and thus I expect to see the light....
Best
ArendH
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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Yesterday at 4:34 pm

Hi Arend,

There is two basic principles for doing faces, dry brushing or washing.

In the former you paint the face slightly darker than you wish and then dry brush flesh - this will give the highlights on the nose, chin etc.

I prefer washing - paint the figure in the colours you wish, then give it a watered down ink wash - this will sink into the moulding of the figure and create shadows and nose, eye & mouth definition. I use Sepia or Nutbrown ink - just normal drawing/calligraphy ink.

If you over do it - it gives a dirty look, so its a case of working out your own ink/water ratio of you wash your Zulus it should bring out the detail on the cowtails etc, add depth to the flesh and shield back.

BUT - I have never done this on enamel only acrylic - I can see it working on matt enamel but am not sure about on gloss - I'm afraid its a case of suck it and see, for you.

I like the effect you have achieved with the attacking impi.

Do you glue the shields on before or after painting? Also do you spray undercoat the Zulus brown before painting?

If not for mass affect I would consider spraying brown and dry brushing cowtails etc white, splash of colour on the 'groin' covers and they should look great especially if you are going for 'fousands' of them.

Washing has become the new 'vogue' but I started doing it twenty odd years ago because I am not much good at dry brushing/highlighting.

Cheers

Simon




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ArendH



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PostSubject: Re: William Britain's Zulu War dioramas   Today at 7:44 am

Thanks for the advice, Simon,
I'll have to think carefully and experiment further with the enamel colour shading on the faces - it also seems that I need to find a way of showing beards, or at least long wide whiskers on the faces of my troops.

We did a great deal of experimenting for the Zulu skin colouring and we discarded a large number of "traditional" brown colour recommendations because they didn't work on the small 22 mm figures. We eventually settled for painting the figures, without primer or undercoat, with Humbrol 251 (RLM 81 Dunkelbraun Matt - yes you did read right - the Luftwaffe colour...!) although it is a matt colour, it does give a slight sheen that is good enough, at the scale of 1:72, to suggest glistening, sweating bodies. I quite like the final finish.

I mainly do WWII aircraft and I have never used washing, in fact I don't even air brush, much preferring the pleasure, satisfaction and concentration of brushing. I pay for my preferences in time but that is my choice.

The way we have worked the Zulus so far (we have a production line approach with batch colour painting of sprues) is to paint the Zulu bodies (Humbrol 251), and choose separate items like shields (four regiments, three colour schemes), spears, arm and leg decorations and head dresses, and paint in batches. I have divided up the sprues into the correct number for the four different regiments and detach and final finish once the bulk painting is complete. Once the figures are cut off the sprues, I clean up the cuts, touch up these and any other blemishes or omissions. I leave the figures on the bases, plan the pose and figure layouts and figure groupings and cut off the bases, ready for gluing at the last minute.

I am fine with dry brushing and that's the technique I have used for the Zulu loin clothes and that seems to have come out quite well.
'Best
Arend
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