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 N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?

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jc_tx

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PostSubject: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:01 pm

Hi all,
First time visitor here. My great Grandfather (James Joseph Cooke) was QMS of N battery 5th brigade ("Cali" Woods column) at isandlwana. I have a photo of him wearing a tunic with 12 buttons on it which seems too many from all the photos I have seen. So - trying to find a roll list that confirms his part in this. My cousin has letters he wrote to his wife describing recovering the personal effects of the slain British soldiers after the battle; he died of dysentery 16 March at Helpmekaar. This is all I know. Can anyone help me find more information on this and what his role might have been in the battle?
THanks
James Cooke
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:12 pm

James,

Welcome to the forum. Great first post to start things off. Hopefully we can find some answers for you.

From the Medal Roll for the South Africa Medal

Quarter Master Sergeant James Cook, Regimental Number 48. The medal roll shows that he was entitled to the South Africa Medal with clasp “1877-8-9”, and confirms his died at Helpmakaar on 3 March 1879.

I also found a “Return of Casualties” that has J. Cooke died of “fever” at Helpmakaar 3 March 1879.

I will keep looking, but you will probably get better results from one or more of the other members who are more familiar with the Royal Artillery.


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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:26 pm

N/5 Battery saw action at Isandlwana. They received a reinforcement of two guns under Capt Vibart in May 1879, to replace the two lost at Isandlwana.

The only other action they took part in was Ulundi... I could be wrong.... Salute

Welcome to the Forum.
The Image of James Cook and other bits & pieces, would be much appricated.
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TOWERBOY



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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:57 pm

POT, i have a medal too 2732. J.DAVIS with 1879 clasp 5th brigade N Battery, says he died on service, any info would be appreciated Salute
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jc_tx

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:31 pm

Fabulous, thank you. I have posted a link to pics of James Cook - some are of his son and other artefacts:
facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1712312575000.96534.1453736248&type=1&l=c0b7da8afb

Note - because I am a new member i cannot post links. you have to put h t t p colon forward-slash forward-slash doubleu doubleu doubleu in front of it, then it works. If not shoot me an email at james.cooke at farmcreditbank dot com and I will send them to you directly.

It is the first 2 pics.


Last edited by jc_tx on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:34 pm

Thanks, can you recheck the link, not working.
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jc_tx

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:54 pm

littlehand, I tried to amend the link - see my modifed post...
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:20 pm

PM me the link. I will try to copy and paste.
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jc_tx

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:23 pm

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James Cook - Royal Artillery N Battery 5th Brigade
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Writing on the back of the pic
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:29 pm

Your a diamond. He looks like the kind of chap, you woundn't want to up-set. Excellent photo JC thanks Salute
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:37 pm

Towerboy,

I started a separate thread on Davis so not to confuse anyone.


Petty Officer Tom
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jc_tx

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:43 pm

LittleHand,
thanks, I agree with your assessment. My dad (his grandson) had that look in his eye a lot when I was a teenager. I also saw that look in the eye of the sergeant majors during my stint in the SADF. In both cases, there followed a delightfully creative punishment of sorts; it was always bad, but at least it wasnt't a can of grapeshot from a 7 pounder...

lol
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:23 pm

Quote :
can of grapeshot from a 7 pounder
Shocked

It's such a shame that these giants of men, we're taken by some cruel decease.
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90th

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PostSubject: N Battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it ?    Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:21 am

Hi jc_tx.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing the great photo of J.Cook . The following is from ' The South African Campaign Of 1879 ' by Makinnon & Shadbolt , p322 , Reords Of Service , Royal Artillery N Battery , 5th Brigade .
At the latter end of 1878 Harness's Battery , which was encamped at Maritzburg , was employed in preparing for the impending campaign in zululand . Marching for Helpmakaar , it remained under canvas at Greytown , en route , until after Christmas , and arrived at it's destination on the 7th Jan 79. The Battery formed part of Glyn's column of the army of invasion , and comsisted , at the time of it's entry into Zululand , of 130 ranks , with six guns , 73 horses , 36 mules , and six mule - carts , with transport waggons . In the disasterous encounter with the enemy at Isandlwana , the battery lost Bt. Maj Stuart Smith , 61 Non Com . Officers and men , two guns , 24 horses , 30 mules , and 534 rounds of ammunition , besides the whole of the camp equipment .
The Battery recrossed the Buffalo River with the remains of the column on the 23rd Jan , remained at Rorke's Drift post until the 25th , and then proceeded to Helpmakaar , where it remained until 17th April ; During this time much sickness prevailed . Proceeding to Dundee on the 17th April , the battery formed part of Newdigate's Divis , and , reinforced by two guns under Capt Vibart , took part in the advance of that force into the enemy's country . At Ft Newdigate two guns under Capt Vibart , with Lt Curling , were detailed to form part of the garrison , and , subsequently, two guns under Lt. Fowler were detailed to remain at Ft Evelyn. Remaining guns , with Lt Col Harness and Lt Parsons , continued with the 2nd divis , and took part in the Battle Of Ulundi .The Battery then returned with the Divis as far as Ft Newdigate , where orders were received for it to await the arrival of Baker Russell's Column . On the 5th Aug it joined that force , arriving at Enhlongana , it took part in the erection of Ft George . Leaving the guns under an officer , with the dismounted men , at this post , Col Harness with about 35 mounted men and officers , took part with Col. Baker Russell's patrol in the search for the king . The Column was shortly afterwards broken up , and the Battery proceeded to the Transvaal .
It goes onto give the service record of the officers with N Batt 5th Bgde , I'll just give their names .
Bt.Lt - Col . A. Harness , Captains - F.M.E.Vibart , H.T.Curling , W.J.Fowler . Lt C.S.B.Parsons . Vet Surgeons , F.Duck , B.L.Glover.
Hope its of some use to you .
Cheers 90th. Salute
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jc_tx

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:31 pm

90th , thanks for that. I so much appreciate this group - I have been scratching around for years to get this kind of information.
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:49 pm

jc_tx wrote:
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James Cook - Royal Artillery N Battery 5th Brigade
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Writing on the back of the pic


Superb! Always great to see these fellas and put faces to names. Salute
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impi

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:32 pm

JC. Your avata. Who is he.
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jc_tx

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:30 pm

Impi,
that was my Grandfather, James Cooke, son of James Joseph Cook who was at Isandlwana. Born in 1872, fought in the Bechuanaland campaign in the Cape Town Highlanders against Lukas Jantjes and possibly also in the 2nd Boer War. Eventually became Mayor of Pretoria and fathered my dad at age 63 in Grahamstown. These were scraggly chaps.
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:18 pm

JC. Thank god you found this forum. Your familey history is amazing. So lucky to have these's photo's.
If i'm not wrong ( Neil will correct me) they look like they are armed with the MH.

Was this complied my yourself.

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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:58 pm

JC. Doe's. "Luka Jantje" mean anything to you..
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90th

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PostSubject: N Battery 5th Bgde - where were they and who was in it .   Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:37 pm

Hi jc_tx
We are glad you found the forum , excellent stuff - great post and photo's , thanks . Do you , or any family member have Cook's campaign medal from the AZW ? . I certainly hope you do , or at least know of its whereabouts ? . Good to have you on-board .
Cheers 90th. Salute
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:05 am

[quote="jc_tx"]Hi all,
First time visitor here. My great Grandfather (James Joseph Cooke) was QMS of N battery 5th brigade ("Cali" Woods column) at isandlwana. [quote]

Hi JC-TX

See "England'sons: a casualty and survivors' roll of british combattants for the battle of Isandhlwana and the defense of Rorke's Drift" by Julian WHYBRA.
Mister WHYBRA is a member of this forum.

Regard

Ymob
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jc_tx

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:02 am

Little Hand and 90
As regards the medal, I remember my dad and mom talking about it in the early 80's. I think they may have donated it to the Albany Museum in Grahamstown - not sure - but at one stage my Grandfather was curator there and I suspect that.

As regards Lukas, Littlehand, I also believe that my Grandfather donated the skull to this museum in the 30's or 40's. He took possession of it somehow after Captain Searle was caught boiling it in the mess hall. He was a private at the time and probably did it either as an opportunity or to help searle out. According to my dad, who passed in 95, James Joseph used to keep it in his study and take it out annually at the reunion of the 97 operations with the rest of the crowd from Langeberg. When my dad was young he apparently walked in on one of these meetings and was scolded "this is not a place for kids". His (young) mother heard of it and allegedlly administered an ultimatum of " keep the skull or me". At this point he either donated it to the Albany Museum ( I have documentation regarding this) or disposed of if in the rose garden in Grahamstown. The Albany museum does have records of a skull being on display, but apparently it just disappeared, possibly in a fire.

The family tree is indeed mine, it was not compiled by me but a relative, with whom I no longer have congenial contact because I inadvertantly insulted her deceased dog on facebook a few years ago.

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:49 pm

"...he was executed in the Langeberg by the British army, His head was chopped off, the flesh was boiled off the skull and a British officer, upstanding representative of western civilisation, took the skull home as a trophy."

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If you can call the Cape Town Highlanders the British Army!!!


Poor Lukas!


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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:48 pm

That's war I'm afraid, decapitation of a British soldier took place at Isandlwana.
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:38 pm

Was this carried out by an upstanding representative of Zulu civilisation?
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?    Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:09 pm

QMS. J. Cook is the first name listed under 'N5 Bty RA' on the Royal Artillery Memorial in Woolwich which commemorates Officers & men who died during both Afghan & South African Campaigns 1877-81. There is a photo of it in the 'graves' section although the name may be a little difficult to make out.

Regards,

Tim
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jc_tx

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:44 pm

Tim, thats so exciting, thank you. I wish my dad were still alive, because I don't think he knew about this. But - can you supply a link to the site where you saw this please? Or post a pic?
Thanks,
James
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:19 pm

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I think this is the memorial inquestion. The bottom photo.
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:39 am

Hi James,

I've sent you a PM.

Bookworm
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Tim Needham

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PostSubject: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:46 pm

It appears that the Royal Artillery Memorial commemorating those who fell in South Africa & Afghanistan has now been re-located from Woolwich to the Regimental Headquarters at Larkhill in Wiltshire. Just in case anyone was intending to try & find it!

Regards,

Tim
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:57 pm

I bet that caused some up- set Not getting involved
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Tim Needham

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PostSubject: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?    Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:12 pm

It nearly caused a bit more! I was intending to pay another visit to it in a couple of weeks when I am next in London & just thought I'd refresh my memory by pinpointing it on Google Earth - when I zoomed in to where I thought it was there was nothing there but a small pile of broken stones; having made some enquiries with the Royal Artillery they have confirmed its re-location to Larkhill (although I'm not sure when this happened).

I'm glad I checked before trekking off to Woolwich.........

Regards,

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:43 pm

Larkhill is a garrison town in the civil parish of Durrington, Wiltshire, England. It is 800 yards west of Durrington village proper and 1 mi north of the prehistoric monument of Stonehenge. It is about 10 mi north of Salisbury.
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:00 am

jc-tx
Your great-grandfather, James Cook, was certainly with N/5 RA but he was not present at the battle of Isandhlwana. He was still travelling up to Isandhlwana from Natal and never formed part of the invasion force. I had originally thought he was part of Chelmsford's reconnaissance but have now discovered that this was not the case.
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:30 am

By the way his rank was Staff Sergeant.
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:08 pm

Question for Julian please. I have been exchanging very helpful posts elsewhere on the forum regarding my Great Grandfather Driver Ernest Alfred Martin whose South African medal with 1879 clasp I have (but inscribed Alfred Ernest Martin) but appears to be the source of some confusion. Both the medal and his later discharge document place him in Nbattery 5th Brigade but the medal roll shows he qualified for a medal without a clasp indicating that he may not actually have entered Zululand and may therefore have got the clasp by mistake. Alternatively the medal roll may be wrong. I will at some point go to Kew to check the muster and pay rolls although I have read somewhere else that Kew only has these for n battery 5th brigade from April 1879 onwards, which may still be useful. I wonder if there is another way to tackle my quest. You seem to have a source of information identifying all who took part in the battle of Ulundi. If that is the case would you be able to check if my great grandad was there or not under either of the two names which have been used in his records? Many thanks. Regards John
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:51 pm

The Battery Pay List for the quarters covering the Zulu War are all in the National Archives (WO16).  They provide the names of all men who were paid through the Battery account including the reinforcements that came out after Isandhlwana.  Note that it is a Pay List and not a Muster Roll but it is useful in establishing who was there and it has notes on individuals where appropriate so you might find a reference to his not having crossed the border.

The Battery Medal Roll is dated Pretoria 13th Dec 1880 and is in the National Archives (WO 100/46).

The 5th Brigade Nominal Roll Book 1877-82 is also in the NA (WO69/894).  It is indexed and has rank, names and number, date of attestation, age on attestation, and circumstances at 1st April 1882 (death, discharge, etc.).  It contains information dating from the reorganization of 1st July 1877.  There are discrepancies between this book and other sources and where these occur the Nominal Roll book may be taken to be correct.

Also at NA are Soldiers' Documents (WO97).  Many of these are missing for N/5, particularly for short-service men but also for some long-service men too.  You might be lucky.

I'm sorry but all the research and copies of originals I have relate to N/5 up until March 1879. I can tell you definitely that he was not a member of N/5 Battery at the time of Isandhlwana as I have details on all the Battery's members, whether they were out with Chelmsford, in camp, at Helpmekaar, or en route to the front. I did not look at anything for the battery after this date but I suspect that's where you will find him.

Nevertheless I hope the above helps.
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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:01 pm

Julian just to say many thanks. This will all help me to save time when I go to Kew. Regards John
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: N battery 5th Brigade - where were they and who was in it?   Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:05 pm

Good.
The Pay List index no. up until March 1879 is WO16/278 so I suspect the dates you're looking for will be at the end of that volume or in the next one or possibly two (i.e. 279, 280). I'd get out all three.
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