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 Durnford was he capable. 3

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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:17 pm

littlehand wrote:

1. Soon after 2 A.M. on the 22nd January I received instructions from the Lieutenant-General to send a written order to Lieutenant-Colonel Durnford, R.E., commanding No. 2 Column, to the following effect (I copied it in my note-book which was afterwards lost): " Move up to Sandhlwana Camp at once with all your mounted men and Rocket Battery—take command of it. I am accompanying Colonel Glyn, who is moving off at once to attack Matyana and a Zulu force.

Why go on quoting things like this when they only weaken your argument? Amazingly, the order was found in tact and it DID NOT SAY, "...take command of it." This is now an accepted part of the historical record. He was dead wrong either through a faulty memory or because it was very much to his and Chelmsford's advantage to claim as much. I understand that you are merely quoting his testimony as recorded, but it has been proven to be DEAD WRONG and it makes any rational being question the reliability of this man. Personally, I think he was a bald faced liar who (against all odds) was caught out.

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:44 pm

6pdr, if you read the post correctly taking into account LH post yesterday, he is showing exactly what you are spurting off about. Clery was dealing with the order as directed by LC. LC, then instructed Crealock to send it, LH says in his post where Clery's involvement ends. It's then down Crealock who for whatever reason, sent a totally different message. And we know, Crealocks order didn't state " Take command"

And what argument is LH having, which you claim has been weaken. He is just posting information to help Martin, If Martin doesn't what help he only has to say, I'm sure it wouldn't bother LH!

Move the debate forward and stop treading water.
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:02 am

Dave wrote:
6pdr, if you read the post correctly taking into account LH post yesterday, he is showing exactly what you are spurting off about...Move the debate forward and stop treading water.

Hmm, I guess you are right Dave. I went off half cocked. My bad. It's just that whenever I see things posted here without context I think of the neophyte reader who takes things at face value.  Salute 
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:15 pm

John Young wrote:
Impi,

I think we can dismiss Donald Morris' allegation as unfounded.

The contemporary report that I was shown concurs with the same finding as Frank has given 'heat apoplexy.'

Frank,

He was actually en-route to China, the ship docked in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) where he was taken ashore for treatment.

John Y.

With Gordon in China: Letters from Thomas Lyster, Lieutenant Royal Engineers by the self-same, 1891, in a letter to his (Lyster's) mother dated 12 Jan 1865 -

"...I heard from Colonel Gordon at Ceylon yesterday ; he has taken Captain Durnford, who was coming out here, back with him, as he was very ill from the efffects of sun-stroke..."

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:20 pm

Frédéric,

Well done, we'll make an Englishman of you yet!

Another Morris myth kyboshed.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:32 pm

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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:51 pm

Source!
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:10 pm

"Flashy", ye gods blood.. Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:23 pm

Flashman and the Tiger?.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:58 am

John Young wrote:
Frédéric,

Well done, we'll make an Englishman of you yet!

Another Morris myth kyboshed.

John Y.

Thanks you Mister Young,
It will be a real Honor  Salute ...When Englisman will agree to drive ( their car) on the RIGHT of the roads and not on the left! Very Happy 

Cordialement

Frédéric
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:08 am

Is there such a thing as a " Englishman" they disappeared in the 1940s
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:27 am

24th wrote:
Is there such a thing as a " Englishman"  they disappeared in the 1940s  

Thanks you for this usuful information.
No doubt, Mister Young and me  ignored this minor event intervened in the United Kingdom! Wink 
Mister Young Wink 
Cheers
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6pdr

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:14 am

24th wrote:
Source!

Liam Neeson in Taken or Taken 2.
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:16 am

ymob wrote:

Thanks you Mister Young,
It will be a real Honor  Salute ...When Englisman will agree to drive ( their car) on the RIGHT of the roads and not on the left! Very Happy 
Cordialement
Frédéric

Oh please!  Your countrymen will consign you to eating English cuisine* for the rest of your life...and then where will you be?

* For the rest of you: Cuisine is a French word, used in English to denote something cooked and yet still edible by people not born on those sceptered isles... I understand that might be confusing for some who post here regularly, so I hastened to help out.  Joker 
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:52 am

6pd
We all have our crosses to bare, we have Biltong and Pickled fish, you have Pink Slime..............
And of course Frederic already has that predilection for chasing little shelled beasts around his garden.
 agree 
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:01 pm

And we have our fish 'n' chips  agree 

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:31 pm

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John

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:26 pm

Les what's the source.
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:24 am

John wrote:
Les what's the source.

Umm, would that be the original message?
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:38 am

6pdr,   agree    sorry john, i missed that
till now, iv'e been busy the last half hour  Very Happy 
not sure off hand, greaves, Isandlwana! have
to check that,
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:01 pm

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Source: From midshipman to field marshal
4th ed.
by Evelyn Wood
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:40 pm

Good post 24th, Brave Noble Durnford. here a bit more.

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:02 am

24th, interesting in that, they assumed he covered the retreat of the Guns! So it appears that those that left took advantage of Dumfords generosity.  And to rub salt into the wounds the Guns were captured anyway!
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:48 am

Mr M. Cooper wrote:
And we have our fish 'n' chips  agree 

 Off Topic 

Bonjour Martin and the others,
At my arrival in the United Kingdom, i shall recruit a Franch cook...I am a careful man. Very Happy 
Cheers
I.E: Sorry  Off Topic
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:43 pm

Hello Frederic.

You can always recruit Anatole (Aunt Dahlia's French chef at Brinkley Court), a character from Jeeves and Wooster by P.G. Wodehouse. agree

Salute
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:22 pm

A bit more to pick through.. from A History of Natal by E H Brookes and C de B Webb
1965 so pre Morris

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:22 pm

Mr M. Cooper wrote:
Hello Frederic.

You can always recruit Anatole (Aunt Dahlia's French chef at Brinkley Court), a character from Jeeves and Wooster by P.G. Wodehouse. agree

Salute

Bonjour Martin,
I had rather thought of the descendants of Mister LAPARRA (french cook of LC) for the culinary and historic pleasure...Wink
Cheers
Frédéric
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:28 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:31 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:35 pm

And this from Professor Alan F Hattersley.

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:37 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:55 pm

A few factual errors though, for Natal Native Horse read Natal Native Contingent, as an example.

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:15 pm

No opinion from me Frank, just throwing it in the pot!
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:21 pm

springbok9 wrote:
A few factual errors though, for Natal Native Horse read Natal Native Contingent.

Cheers

Bonjour Springbok,
Not getting involved.
Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:20 am







Dutton.
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:59 pm

Xhosa
On 23rd August in this topic you posted a picture of Durnford's orders in the RE Museum in Chatham apparently stuck into an album.
The misspelt comment beneath it (not from the Museum) includes the statements that the orders were removed from Durnford's dead body and were handed into a Natal newspaper in recent times.  Both of these statements are incorrect.
Do you know where this picture's comment comes from?  Did you get it from a website or a book?  Wherever the source, it's obviously not very concerned about getting its facts straight.


Last edited by Julian Whybra on Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:54 pm

Hey Julian, just got in and saw your comment, its from
my scrapbook, i know the comments are erroneous, if
i remember correctly, jackson and your good self were
instrumental in bringing the ' lost ' documents to light
and then before the public.. i will have to dig for the
pic, which was i feel from a modern publication. my
scrapbook does indeed need updating, but as it runs to
over a hundred pages in each volume (3) that that will
take time i don't currently have..
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:06 pm

xhosa
If you're the source of the comment then that's fine - it's easily corrected.  I thought the wording might have come from some professional website or publication.
It doesn't matter where the photo comes from - that's not what I was asking about so no need to look!
Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:33 pm

Well i dug anyway, and your quite right, mea culpa,it
will teach me not to post in haste! no professional's
involved..comments entirely my own, but i still have
it that i am correct in the main.but definitely not for
publication.




Sorry Julian
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:49 am

xhosa
Sorry, it was just that any new forum member might be misled by reading that the orders were found on Durnford's body (they were found "on the field of Isandhlwana") and that the orders were sent to a paper in recent times (they were sent in 1885 to the finder's brother who happened to be the editor of the Natal Witness).
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PostSubject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 3   Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:34 pm

Thank you Julian, leaving aside Laurd and Shepstone, maybe you could say a few words for the benefit
of new forum members, where durford's orders were located, how long they had been there, and your involvement in the finding and restoration.


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