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» What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?
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» Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift
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» South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)
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 William Oakley

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Mr M. Cooper
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Clayman
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Clayman




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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 2:12 pm

William was a member of my family - great grand uncle - who fought and died in the 1st battalion 24th regiment at Isandlwana. But can someone help me with finding his company? I recently read "How can man die better" and am fascinated to at least discover which company he served with.
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rusteze

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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 3:59 pm

Hi Clayman

I too have a distant relative who was killed at Isandhlwana, but have never been able to pin down his company. The archives at Kew have the Pay and Muster Books for 1/24th up to Sept 1878 (later volume lost in battle) but do not show companies - the only exception being Wardell's H company when it was at St Helena. So I do not think there is any way to tell - but of course would be delighted to hear differently.

Have you seen the entry in Norman Holmes Noble 24th for William Oakley? If not, I can let you have it.

Steve
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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 4:05 pm

No - not seen it and I would be very grateful for a sight of it!

Chris
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rusteze

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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 4:27 pm

Chris

Norman Holmes ' The Noble 24th".

"Oakley, William 1-24th/1245 Private.
Attested 15/1/1866; age19 years. Re-engaged at Gibralter 15/2/1873. Effects claimed by his father.
South Africa Medal with clasp 1877-8-9."

Steve
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Mr M. Cooper

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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 5:09 pm

Hi Chris.

It can prove difficult trying to trace relatives. For instance, it has always been said that Pte William Cooper, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, who fought at RD was a relation, but trying to trace this back has proved very difficult. And there could also be other links within this chain of Cooper's, as there were three other Cooper's that fought at iSandlwana, two of them with the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, (one of these was related to Ian Knight), and also one with the R.A. Even the great lady herself (Kris Wheatley), had some difficulty trying to trace our relative, but we will keep trying.

There are a number of members on the forum that are good at finding old army records, maybe one of them could help with tracing William Oakley.

Hope you get a result.
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Chard1879

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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 7:52 pm

I can't see him on this roll. Maybe I missed him! Perhaps someone could check. Just to make sure.

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/zulu/despatch5_isandhlwana_isandlwana_casualty.htm
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Chard1879

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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 8:05 pm

Can anyone tell me, why Beckett, who died at Rorke's Drift is listed as one of those killed at Isandlwana.
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rusteze

rusteze


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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 8:09 pm

Are you talking about Oakley, who is on the roll if you look, or Cooper who was at RD not Isandhlwana?

Steve
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Chard1879

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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 8:12 pm

The name, in the topic in question? "Oakley"
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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 8:12 pm

chard1879, he's there, middle section. Salute 
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 8:14 pm

Eye test overdue!

Steve
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 9:12 pm

Oakley, Wm.  1245 1st/24
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PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 9:14 pm

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PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 9:23 pm

Steve.

There were three Coopers (KIA) at iSandlwana, and also one (survived) at RD. I know that one of the Coopers at iSandlwana was related to Ian Knight (but I don't know if there is any connection to our family). But I do know that it has been said by older (now deceased) members of the family, that one of these Cooper's was related, and it was always thought that this was William Cooper (RD), but trying to find out is proving very difficult (see my post above).
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 9:44 pm

I suppose you have tried working back from the current generation to look for a connection? After many years of researching family history I have found that trying to work forwards from an ancestor is very difficult indeed.

Steve
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Mr M. Cooper

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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 9:50 pm

Hi Steve.

Tried all sorts mate, even the great lady herself (Kris Wheatley) came up against a brick wall.

There seem to be many hopeful pathways, then they just seem to come to a dead end, however, we will keep trying.
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PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 10:44 pm

Mr M. Cooper wrote:
Steve.

There were three Coopers (KIA) at iSandlwana, and also one (survived) at RD. I know that one of the Coopers at iSandlwana was related to Ian Knight (but I don't know if there is any connection to our family). But I do know that it has been said by older (now deceased) members of the family, that one of these Cooper's was related, and it was always thought that this was William Cooper (RD), but trying to find out is proving very difficult (see my post above).
God help us, where's  that rope! 

Martin if you said you was related to " Tommy Cooper " I wouldn't doubt it.

Just like that! Ah ah ah Joker
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90th

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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: William Oakley    William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 11:53 pm

Sorry to say there are no records in existance which show who was in what company at Isandlwana , apparantley they were lost / destroyed during the battle Sad 
Cheers 90th


Last edited by 90th on Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chard1879

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PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptyFri Nov 08, 2013 11:58 pm

How was it then! that a casuilites list was written ?
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90th

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PostSubject: William Oakley    William Oakley EmptySat Nov 09, 2013 12:06 am

Chard
No doubt they called a roll at some stage and those that didnt answer were either killed or missing No  I assume that's how it's done ? . That has nothing to do with the breakdown of companies . It is well known by those who attempt to research who was in what company at Isandlwana that plainly these records are not available . Do you think none of the historians , authors or medal collectors havent attempted to find the company lists ? , please , give me a break ! No 
Just take it as fact ' THEY DONT EXIST ! '
90th Rolling Eyes 
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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptySat Nov 09, 2013 12:23 am

Was it not just 1st/24th Reg that lost the records. I could be wrong?
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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptySat Nov 09, 2013 12:43 am

CTSG.

Tommy Cooper was a very clever man who just played at being a fool.

But it appears that you are a fool that plays at being a clever man.

Joker 
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptySat Nov 09, 2013 12:49 am

Here is part of the last Pay and Muster Book for the 1/24th to survive. You will see that there are three columns on the right which are the three musters for July/Aug/Sept 1878. You will also see that it says they were copied from the Muster Rolls (which may have been by company, but they were not preserved for the record). There are no rolls by company, believe me I have looked.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Copyright National Archives

Steve
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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptySat Nov 09, 2013 12:55 am

Mr M. Cooper wrote:
CTSG.

Tommy Cooper was a very clever man who just played at being a fool.

But it appears that you are a fool that plays at being a clever man.

Joker 
No comedians please, officer on paraide. 
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William Oakley Empty
PostSubject: Re: William Oakley   William Oakley EmptySun Nov 10, 2013 2:20 pm

Rolling Eyes 

Salute 
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