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free1954
Frank Allewell
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rusteze
Isandula
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Isandula

Isandula


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PostSubject: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyThu Feb 05, 2015 5:12 pm

Now this is a rare publication:  Captain William Penn Symons' personal signed copy of "Historical Records of the 2nd Battalion 24th Regiment for the Kaffir War of 1877-8"
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(Isandula Collection)
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyThu Feb 05, 2015 5:32 pm

Rare as hens teeth! Martin Everett referred to it on the RDVC site back in 2008.


"Sgt Hornbrook's extended work along with Penn Symons' and Col Macpherson's (extended to cover AZW) formed the basis of 'Historical Records of the 24th:

Hornibrook, M., Sgt.
Historical Records of the 2nd Battalion, 24th Regiment, for the Kaffir War of 1877-8. (Pietermaritzburg, privately printed in the offices of 2/24th 1878). 19 pages. (later 77 pages).
This history of the South African campaign was first printed in the 1st Battalion by 1-24/824 Sgt Michael Hornibrook using the Battalion’s own printing press. Michael Hornibrook was killed at Isandhlwana with the 1st Battalion on 22 January 1879. The booklet was later expanded to include the Zulu war 1878-1879 and republished by the 2nd Battalion Press in Secunderbad, Deccan in January 1882."


Very well done.

Steve
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyThu Feb 05, 2015 5:50 pm

Hi Steve, Thanks for your positive comments. I'll post the cover and first page of the edition expanded to include the Zulu war of 1879 and republished by the 2nd Battalion Press in Secunderbad, Deccan in January 1882" sometime later when I have time. Isandula
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90th

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PostSubject: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyFri Feb 06, 2015 2:13 am

Excellent , thanks for sharing . I'm certain Penn - Symons was also KIA , 1st Boer War ?????.
90th
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Penn Symons' demise   Rare Publication EmptyFri Feb 06, 2015 2:31 am

90th, You are very correct about Penn Symons' demise. From Wikipedia:
Major-General Sir William Penn Symons KCB (17 July 1843 – 23 October 1899) was a British Army officer who was mortally wounded as he commanded his forces at the Battle of Talana Hill during the Second Boer War. Whilst his forces won the battle they had to abandon their position and fall back to Ladysmith. Symons and the more severely wounded were left to the Boers; he died three days later as a prisoner of war. A monument to his valour was raised in Victoria Park, Saltash, Cornwall, UK.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyFri Feb 06, 2015 7:29 am

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Isandula

Isandula


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PostSubject: Rare as Hen's Teeth   Rare Publication EmptyFri Feb 06, 2015 4:27 pm

Here is the "Historical Records of the 2nd Battalion 24th Regiment for the Campaign in South Africa 1877-78-79 Embracing the Kaffir & Zulu Wars."  Printed by Press, 2nd Battalion, "The South Wales Borderers," at Secunderabad, Deccan, January, 1882.
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyFri Feb 06, 2015 5:12 pm

Thanks Isandula, thats excellent.

Just to complete the trio, here's Courtney Vor Trowers copy of Records of the 24th Regiment - he signed the order in your earlier edition.

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Steve
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Isandula

Isandula


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PostSubject: Trio   Rare Publication EmptyFri Feb 06, 2015 5:29 pm

rusteze, I like it! Isandula
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySat Feb 07, 2015 12:17 am

Hi Steve & Isandula
Me too !
90th Very Happy
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free1954




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySat Feb 07, 2015 11:13 am

as you are saying these are rare, i'm guessing they are not available to read online anywhere?
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySat Feb 07, 2015 11:27 am

https://archive.org/stream/cihm_05694#page/n11/mode/2up

I think there the same!
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySat Feb 07, 2015 11:30 am

Isandula's earlier ones are very rare and produced by the regiment itself - not available to the public. The final version covers a much longer period and was commercially produced, it contained the earlier versions, but by no means the same.

Steve
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySat Feb 07, 2015 11:54 am

This is a presentation copy for the regiment. It was owned by William Weallens, who was with Chelmsford's column at Isandhlwana and who later presented the Ist Battalion's recovered colours to Queen Victoria.

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Steve
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Daryl81




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySat Jan 19, 2019 2:50 pm

Hi I have a signed copy of the historical records of the 2nd battalion 24th regiment for the campaign in south africa 1877 78 79 embracing the kaffir and zulu wars printed by press, 2nd battalion, the south Wales borderers, at secunderabad, deccan January, 1882[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Daryl81




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySat Jan 19, 2019 3:03 pm

Also what's really interesting is that in the back of the book is a piece of paper which reads errata meaning errors and all through the book bits have been altered the pictures should show what I mean any input would be appreciated also would this be valuable many thanks [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Daryl81




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySat Jan 19, 2019 3:04 pm

More pictures [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySat Jan 19, 2019 6:33 pm

Hi Daryl81 and welcome.

That is interesting, particularly the short hand written notes in the text. It would be useful to know if there are any more?

Steve
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Daryl81




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySat Jan 19, 2019 7:05 pm

Hi steve yes there are a few more I post some pictures shortly.
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Daryl81




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySun Jan 20, 2019 1:00 pm

Hi steve a few more pics I can only post four at a time for some reason [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Daryl81




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySun Jan 20, 2019 1:02 pm

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Daryl81




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySun Jan 20, 2019 1:04 pm

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Daryl81




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySun Jan 20, 2019 1:04 pm

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Daryl81




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySun Jan 20, 2019 1:05 pm

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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySun Jan 20, 2019 5:30 pm

Thanks Daryl18. A few observations based on your photos.

It appears you have W Pen Symons copy of the history. If you take a look at the start of this thread you will see that another forum member, Isandula, has Symons copy of the earlier edition covering 1877/78 - quite a coincidence! He also has a copy of your edition, but they are very rare.

Pen Symons became one of the editors of the official history of the regiment published in 1892 (again see earlier postings) and it very much looks like he has used your copy as a basis for that with hand written notes to omit some sections and run on the text in others.

Two new pieces of information emerge, He notes against the names of two 2nd battalion soldiers, Hopkins killed at Isandhlwana who he says was his servant and Chick killed at Rorke's Drift who he says was his chief cook.  

Finally, and I think for the first time (others may know better), the text of your edition shows to which company the 2nd battalion 24th men killed at Isandhlwana belonged. Most, as you would expect, were with Pope's G Company, and the others a mix from A C D E F H who were either on piquet duty or who where incapacitated when the bulk of 2nd battalion left with Chelmsford early on 22nd. In the published edition of 1892 the names appear in a single list without any indication of their company.

PS If you do not have a copy of Julian Whybra's latest edition of Zulu War Studies Vol V, I very much recommend it. It includes the first half of Pen Symons long suppressed report on Isandhlwana and Rorke's Drift which had been kept under close wraps for 139 years on the instructions of Queen Victoria.

Steve
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySun Jan 20, 2019 10:15 pm

The coys for almost all the 2/24th kia at Isandhlwana are already known - can I ask whether it has the coys for the few that are not known?  Viz.
Corp. 25B/657 Jno. M. Low
Ptes. 25B/1550 Hy. Bishop, 25B/1500 Edwd. A. Byard, 25B/1041 Alfred Farr, 25B/1313 Jas. Edwd. Hill, 2-24/1057, Joseph King, 25B/671 Joseph Machin, 25B/1036 Timothy Neagle, 2-24/1901 Robt. Nobes, 25B/949 Thos. Quilford, and 2-24/2358 Edmund Turner.
I'd be pleased to know them if it does.
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyMon Jan 21, 2019 1:01 am

Julian/Daryl81

Leaving aside Corp. Low for a moment (who I suspect appears on the previous page not copied). All of the others were with H Company.

Steve
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyMon Jan 21, 2019 9:54 am

Thanks! If you find out about Low do let me know!
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Daryl81




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyMon Jan 21, 2019 6:44 pm

Hello Julian the only page with low on it is the list of killed I can't read the short hand txt in it I'm afraid see attached pictures thanks[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyTue Jan 22, 2019 7:58 am

Thanks for posting these - crikey, read the shorthand text! I can't even see it!!
Can anyone else have any better luck?
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyTue Jan 22, 2019 11:03 am

I have taken the liberty of correcting the perspective a little on the two pages listing casualties. Symon's does not give the Coys. for the NCOs but he does for the Privates. The only notations I can see is the pencil note on the left about placing the text at end of Chapt. XIII (I assume in the 1892 version) and the ink notes about his servant and chief cook. It is a great shame that Symons didn't similarly list the casualties for the 1/24th other ranks - it would have been the only existing source of which Coys they belonged to. I take it no one has come across a separate regimentally produced history of 1st Battalion?
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Steve
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyTue Jan 22, 2019 11:14 am

rusteze
Thanks for doing this - I thought I was going blind for a minute.
I don't know of any 1st bn equivalent unfortunately.
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Bill8183




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptySun Mar 24, 2019 5:19 pm

Julian,

According to the pay lists of the 2/24th WO 16/1579 April 1877- Mar 1879, Cpl Low is listed with the casualties of H Company. The effects and credits pages show all the casualties in Company order, with Cpl Low appearing at the top of the page penciled 108 (with typed page 539 at the bottom). The relevant pay list is obviously Oct 78 - Mar 79

I have hopefully inserted the page to show you.

Bill[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Rare Publication   Rare Publication EmptyMon Mar 25, 2019 7:24 am

Bill
Brilliant - thank you!
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