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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyMon Oct 19, 2015 10:27 am

Im looking to get hold of copies of two accounts from Zulu sources
Gumpega Gwabe and Zimema. Both took part at iSandlwana.

Cheers
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyMon Oct 19, 2015 3:43 pm

One issue in particular in addition to their testimonies is that I believe that Zimemas full name was Zimema ka Sigodo of the Manzimelent, one of John Dunns aMaduna.
Any confirmation?
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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyMon Oct 19, 2015 4:15 pm

Hi Frank

Take a look at pages 5 and 6 of this dissertation. Think it confirms your belief about Zimema,
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Steve
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyMon Oct 19, 2015 5:56 pm

Im actually trying to backdate his relationship with Dunn. If he did have a prievious relationship it would beg the question as to why he didn't chose to leave with Dunn but instead remained to fight at did so at iSandlwana.
There is a point to all of this Steve in that Im trying to take a fresh look at the Right Horn. And the two gentlemen Im playing around with should in theory not have been there but rather with Dabulamanzi at RD. So assuming they were actually there and had the clear view their reminicences give them it goes a long way to putting them in the reserve in front of the mountain not tucked away behind the ridge. Long and convoluted way to prove a point but its just one particular aspect towards a theory.

Cheers
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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyMon Oct 19, 2015 8:00 pm

I see what your getting at. I don't have copies of those two gentlemen's statements. The originals are a bit closer to you than they are to me, so unless someone else has them I guess you will get there first! How likely is it that an Induna who had loyalty to Dunn would fight for Cetshwayo I wonder?

Keep up the good work.
Steve
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyMon Oct 19, 2015 9:50 pm

Is this of any help.

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ADMIN

ADMIN

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyMon Oct 19, 2015 11:14 pm

CTSG Good to see you posting again!!! Hoping everything went well. It was a sign to slow down. agree You know it makes sense!!!!
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyMon Oct 19, 2015 11:27 pm

Thanks Pete!!! Getting there. Won't be playing Bar Billiards again!!! Very Happy
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John

John

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyMon Oct 19, 2015 11:31 pm

Very Happy agree Only you could come out with that!!!!!
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyTue Oct 20, 2015 6:16 am

Welcome back CTSG thanks for the post, Steve popped up with the same one.

Cheers
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 5:30 pm

KUMBEKA GWABE of the uMcijo

His account appears in the Natal Mercury, 22nd January 1929.
Photograph accompanied the account and is also in the Killie Campbell Africana Library.
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyWed Oct 21, 2015 5:36 pm

Frank
Where did you get the Zimema kaSigodo source from?
Julian
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyThu Oct 22, 2015 5:23 am

Hi Julian
I was hoping to get a copy from the forum rather than going to the hassle of the KK. Ive been wading through JS trying to build up the family of Zimema. I will get chapter and verse for you later but Im sure it was vol4 and 6

Cheers
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyThu Oct 22, 2015 8:28 am

Frank
I've checked all the JS in the KC and photocopied every relevant a/c - I'm sure I don't recall any Zimema but nobody's perfect. I'll dive into the loft today and double-check my copies. If I have it, I'll send it to you.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyThu Oct 22, 2015 11:09 am

Julian
I was doing some reading up on various issues when I came across the mention of 1929 and the news articles published. it was in that article that Zimema and Kumbeka were mentioned as contributors along with Stafford Mcphail plus a couple of others. I had come across his name as him being one of Dunns men so decided to digress from the points I was chasing ( always the problem with iSandlwana) and look at him and his family. The bits and pieces have started to create a bit of interest, hence I wanted to just confirm the statements he and Kumbeka made and their points of view of the battle.

Cheers
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyThu Oct 22, 2015 12:30 pm

Frank
I've gone through all the photocopies of accounts mentioning Isandhlwana in volume 4 and there's nothing re Zimema BUT the index shows one reference to him on page 26 mentioned in someone else's account (and I did not photocopy this page - YOU SEE, nobody is perfect!).  I'd be interested to see what it does say.
Now for volume 6: nothing found in here either BUT I didn't photocopy the index.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyFri Oct 23, 2015 6:14 am

Hi Julian
The volume 4 mention of Zimema relates to his ancestry, back through Pakade, ( his father) Mfusi to Macingwane.
It started to throw up some alarm bells for me in that Pakade we know was a supporter of the British. Zimema was an induna of Dunn ( Volume 6 ), so in theory an out and out British convert. So why on Earth would he be at iSandlwana? His home base and nearest military kraal was part of the Dabalamanzi controlled area, so again the doubts. If he was with the regiment ( not yet accurately located ) he should have been, then it would have put him in the reserve ( again not certain as we know that the regiments did get mixed up.) But if the article of the 29th July 1929 does mention his regiment it could give some sort of lead. Hence why Im keen to get that particular article.
Just another straw in the Bale really.

Regards
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyThu Nov 05, 2015 9:40 am

Bonjour,
For information:
You can read the testimony of Gumpega Kwabe in the journal of the AZWRS (Mr Young) Vol.2 issue n°1 p.12-13 ("We spared no lives" / "The natal Mercury", Tuesday, Jan. 22nd 1929).
Cheers;
Frédéric
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyThu Nov 05, 2015 12:49 pm

ymob wrote:
Bonjour,
For information:
You can read the testimony of Gumpega Kwabe in the journal of the AZWRS (Mr Young) Vol.2 issue n°1 p.12-13 ("We spared no lives" / "The natal Mercury", Tuesday, Jan. 22nd 1929).
Cheers;
Frédéric

Just a clarification: Mr John Young was chairman of this journal.
It's not the journal with the same title by Adrian Greaves (and now Mr Laband).
Cheers
Frédéric

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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyTue Dec 22, 2015 1:09 pm

Frank Allewell wrote:
Im looking to get hold of copies of two accounts from Zulu sources
Gumpega Gwabe and Zimema. Both took part at iSandlwana.

Cheers

Bonjour Frank,

There is an extract of the account of Zimema about the battle of Isandhlwana in "Fight us in the open" by John Laband (p. 27) and a photography of him (p.25) taken in 1929.
According to Ian Knight a Chief called Zimema fought  at Nyezane:
See extract of his account p.220 and 215 ("The anatomy of the Zulu Amy from Shaka to Cetshwayo 1818-1879".

Cheers

Frédéric
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyTue Dec 22, 2015 2:11 pm

As always Frederic, in your debt.

Cheers
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ymob

ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu Accounts   Zulu Accounts EmptyWed Dec 23, 2015 10:53 am

Bonjour Frank,
Its just an extract ( about fifteen- twenty lines for Laband book) not the full text of his account.
If you don't have a copy of the two books, i'll send to you the extracts.
Cheers
Frédéric
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