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 Drivers of the waggons?

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90th
SRB1965
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Stefaan

Stefaan


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Drivers of the waggons? Empty
PostSubject: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptyFri Nov 10, 2023 9:16 pm

Who were the drivers of the waggons with the different columns during the Zulu war. Were they civilian or military?
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SRB1965

SRB1965


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Drivers of the waggons? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptyFri Nov 10, 2023 9:40 pm

Combination of both.

A Battlion had its own company, HQ etc waggons & carts and the army also hired civilian transport (which according to JY) would have been hired, complete with drivers and ox teams, along with civilian 'waggon' masters

There was a problem getting enough waggons together and even as late as the 21st & 22nd of January, Durnford was out looking for waggons to hire.

Some civilian contractors survived Isandlwana but not all - Hamer survived but Du Bois was killed
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John Young

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Drivers of the waggons? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptyFri Nov 10, 2023 9:52 pm

Stefaan,

It would depend on the type of wagon.

General Service Wagons; Wagons of Royal Artillery; Ambulances; Telegraph wagons etc & etc, would be driven by military personnel.

Locally hired or requisitioned wagons would be led by voorloopers.

Such as in this photograph taken circa 1879 at the Gordon Memorial Mission, Msinga, Natal.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
(John Young Collection.)

You will note the young boy - an umfana - wearing a British Army jacket standing by the lead ox, the vooros.

There is a section on transport in my co-authored work with David Truesdale Victoria’s Harvest.  Colonel Ian Bennett also considered the subject of wagons and transport in his work Eyewitness in Zululand.

JY
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Stefaan

Stefaan


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Drivers of the waggons? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptyFri Nov 10, 2023 10:08 pm

According to the book I have here: The Zulu & Basuto wars, including complete Medal Roll by Ray Dutton, on page 354
J.N.Hamer was acting commissary officer to Col. Durnford's column. I haven't found Du bois yet in these rolls I suppose he
must be in there as well. I suppose he was also entitled to a campaign medal.
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Stefaan

Stefaan


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PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptyFri Nov 10, 2023 10:13 pm

Thanks for the info John, great photograph.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptyFri Nov 10, 2023 10:24 pm

Stefaan,

Rather than Dutton’s work, I would recommend the late Terry Sole’s work For Queen and Colony. Which considers locally recruited transport staff in much more detail.

JY
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Stefaan

Stefaan


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PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptyFri Nov 10, 2023 10:31 pm

OK John, thanks for the tip.
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Drivers of the Wagons    Drivers of the waggons? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 3:44 am

Stefaan
Du Bois was shot in the head after he'd crossed the river , you could say he was very unlucky ! , agree with JY regarding ' For God , Queen & Colony ' as far as I'm aware it's only available at the Publishers.... Token Publishing . Du bois is on a Roll in the above mentioned publication , he's mentioned in several books about Isandlwana .
90th
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 7:44 am

Stefaan
There was supposed to be one Conductor and one Sub-conductor for every ten waggons. It might be inferred that there were 24 European civilians employed for this purpose at Isandhlwana.

Names known are - 15 in the A.C.T.D. (Conductor David Nolan Snr., Conductor of the R.E. Field Park, Conductors Louis Phillippe Du Bois, Mr. Jno. Fielding Day, Mr. Wood, Mr. Doherty, Mr. Bennett, Martin Foley, Jan Berling, Leonard Hall, Jan Homan, Hy. Parsons, C. Street, a mule driver Mr. Hans Boer, and a son of Mr. John Wood, all No. 3 Column; Conductor McCarthy [or McAthie] in No. 2 Column) - 2 in the N.N.C (Conductors, Thos. Gerald Doyle and Le Roux) - possibly 2 more in the A.C.T.D. (Conductors Edmund Ormond Lionel Du Bois, J. Raymond, both No. 3 Column).

This would leave 4 or 5 unaccounted for. It must be assumed that many transport personnel left the camp very early in the day and that some deaths were simply never recorded.

Nathaniel Hamer was not a waggon driver but a civilian Acting Storekeeper, A.C.T.D.

All info taken from my England's Sons p.12. Any extra info you have Stefaan, I'd be pleased to hear about.







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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 11:35 am

Hi All 

There were far to many Drivers to mention and keep track of, as many would flee in the face of the enemy due to lack of protection. So much so, that in May 1879, General Clifford moved his headquarters to Pietermaritzburg with a view to checking desertions, he issued regulations bringing Transport Conductors and others under Martial Law.

Conductor Whittington and a native driver named Campbell late Ferreira's horse died Intombe. Is it possible Whittington survived Isandlwana and remained until his death.

June reinforcements: Conductors O'Loughlin, Ward and Jewel.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 3:46 pm

Eddie
No. Assigned to wrong Column.
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Eddie




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PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 8:12 pm

Hi Julian 

When you say "No Assigned to wrong column" are you saying Conductor Whittington was present on the 22nd and in another column or are you saying he took part later in the war?

The original post questions if the Drivers were civilian or military, and throughout the war. In answer i just named a few I came across that were not in your list.
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Julian Whybra




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Drivers of the waggons? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 8:46 pm

Eddie
Sorry. Crossed wires. I posted only the names of those civilians known from Columns No. 3 & 4.
I meant that Whittington and Campbell (also civilians) were posted to Column No. 5.
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Stefaan

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PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 8:53 pm

There was also a Archbell J.P mentionned as conductor.
On a different thread on this forum I see his name was John Philip and he was a Sgt. Conductor.
He has a headstone at Isandlwana
Strangly he does not appear on the medal roll.
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John Young

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Drivers of the waggons? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 9:27 pm

Stefaan,

He was a member of the 1st Battalion, 3rd Regiment, Natal Native Contingent. The N.N.C. is somewhat confusing if you are relying entirely on the medal rolls.

JY
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Drivers of the waggons?   Drivers of the waggons? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 11:22 pm

Stefaan
John Phillip Archbell was a sergeant in the NNC, not a conductor, and was Durnford's orderly sergeant detached from the 1/1st NNC.
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