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 Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)

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pippi



Posts : 11
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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 8:29 pm

I was wondering / hoping if anyone had any information with regards James Owen - I have been told he won a medal and it is in a museum somewhere but I have not been able to find any further information. Thanks.
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ADMIN

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 8:50 pm

Hi Pippi. Welcome to the forum.

If we are talking Battle Of Rorkes Drift. I believe you will find James Owen was an alias name his real name was Private David. Lewis, 25B/963, B Company.

http://1879zuluwar.forumotion.com/pictorial-catalogue-of-azw-graves-f18/963-pte-david-lewis-james-owen-t557.htm?highlight=lewis
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1879graves

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 8:53 pm

LEWIS, David. 25B/963 Private (Alias James OWEN .)
Born at Swansea, Glamorgan; trade - tin worker (WO97). Description: age at discharge 25 years, height 5' 9", Brown hair, grey eyes, fresh complexion. Attested for 25 Brigade at Brecon 9/12/1876. Posted to 2nd Bn 24th Foot 22/1/1877. Made a monthly remittance of 4 shillings to a Miss Emma Owen, March 1879. Served for 2 years 8 months, including 1 year 8 months in South Africa. Discharged 4/8/1879. Character indifferent. An Injury Assessment Board held at the Royal Hospital, Chelsea 12/8/1879 confirmed that he had was suffering from Valvular Disease of the Heart - caused by being under canvas for six months and constantly exposed to climatic vicissitudes. It was considered that he ought to earn after a time. Awarded a pension of 6 pence per diem for six months. Entry cancelled by' Adjutant General's List dated 11/8/1879. Intended place of residence Swansea, Glamorgan (WO97). A Medal Roll search was undertaken 7/5/1928 on behalf of the Royal Hospital, Chelsea. Died 1/7/1938, at the home of his son, 12 Kemble Street, Brynmill, Swansea. Buried with military honours at Bethel Cemetery, Sketty. A wreath was sent by former comrades at Rorke's Drift including Bourne, Hayes, Edwards, Lockhatt, Cooper, Thomas and W Maybin, Royal Engineers.
Served in the Kaffir War 1878. Served in the Zulu War 1879, a Private in B Company at the defence of Rorke's Drift.
References: Bourne rolls.
South Africa Medal with clasp 1877-8-9.(Regimental property) SWB
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pippi



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 9:10 pm

Thanks a million for the info that is great. My husband said he remembers being taken to 12 Kemble St by his dad when he was little. Real name is actually James Owen but he was underage and ran away from home (I think) so he used the alias of David Lewis. Fantastic - my daughters great great great grandad !!
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ADMIN

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 9:23 pm

Hi Pippi. Roll of Honour shows: Lewis, David. Private. 25B/963, B Company, alias James Owen. But your saying his real name was James Owen. and his Alias was David Lewis.

Is that correct. Or you think that’s correct. Would be interested to know your source.

Regards
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pippi



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 9:35 pm

Hi, our family has been researching the family tree and found an old newspaper cutting regarding his burial which also showed his alias (we thought this was fasinating that a relative had been in the Zulu war so decided to look further). Our name is Owen and as I said they all remember the house as well. This is great to find out all this info, thanks.
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ADMIN

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 9:40 pm

Pippi. Do you still have the newspaper cutting.
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pippi



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 9:46 pm

Hi, yes of course, only got it int he post the other day.
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ADMIN

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 10:08 pm

Any chance you could post a photo of the cutting.
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pippi



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 10:22 pm

of course, but it's next door and a bit late to go knocking. i am busy tomorrow am but will do it pm if thats ok.

if you go into http://archive.timesonline.co.uk and search james owen on 2/8/38 then you get a snippet of his obituary but have to pay for the full copy so I will post tomorrow. Regards
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ADMIN

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Apr 26, 2010 10:24 pm

Thanks Pippi. Looking forward to your post tomorrow. Thanks for the link.
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90th

90th

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: david lewis ( james owen )   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyTue Apr 27, 2010 8:11 am

hi all.
I havent been around for a couple of days , so busily trying to read all posts . Great work
by those involved in this post , and welcome pippi hope you enjoy it here and sure you will learn
much about the zulu war of 1879. Idea .
cheers 90th.
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pippi



Posts : 11
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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyTue Apr 27, 2010 8:27 pm

Hi guys, I have 3 articles, all from the South Wales Evening Post about James Owen death, preperations for his funeral and the funeral day itself. It would seem no-one was aware of the article I found in the Times yesterday, so I will be getting a copy of that tomorrow. I have tried to scan from my printer for the first time ever and keep getting an error message so will look into fixing this tomorrow - so very sorry but the post will have to wait until tomorrow (the plan being if I can't get it to work then I will go down the library)! Thx for all your help so far. Regards Pippi
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pippi



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyWed Apr 28, 2010 1:58 pm

Hi guys, I have scanned the newspaper articles but now have another problem . . . . how do I attach them to my message ??
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ADMIN

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyWed Apr 28, 2010 4:17 pm

Hi pippi.
I have P.M My e-mail address, send them to me and i will post it under your name.
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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyWed Apr 28, 2010 7:34 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Photo Supplied by: pippi
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ADMIN

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyWed Apr 28, 2010 7:41 pm

It might be me getting confused. (As Normal) It says:

"He took part in the famous March to Isandlwana and was Present at the relief of troop at Rorkes Drift."

So is the article saying he was with Chelmsford column that stayed overnight among the dead and then march to Rorkes Drift the next day.
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Mr Greaves

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyWed Apr 28, 2010 8:16 pm

What was the great march to Isandlwana?. Was it the march to the Isandlwana before the Battle. Or the March to re-take the camp after the Battle.

Mr G
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90th

90th

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: david lewis ( james owen )   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyThu Apr 29, 2010 7:14 am

hi all.
Think I will opt for the march back to Isandlwana . I dont think going there had any fame with it . And for him to be
in the relief force he was obviously with the Good Lord or he would be dead .
cheers 90th.
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Mr Greaves

Mr Greaves

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyThu Apr 29, 2010 8:20 am

Like Admin, I thought he was one of the RD Defenders. So how could he have been with the relief force.

Mr G
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90th

90th

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Lewis / Owen.   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyFri Apr 30, 2010 6:57 am

hi all.
It seems this chap was with B Co according to graves1879, if that is correct he would have taken part in the actual battle of R.D
and not been part of the relief force , more to the point the force that was relieved !!!!. As we know it was B Co that was left at
the Drift. I would say the papers have it wrong again , it does happen fairly regularily .
cheers 90th.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyFri Apr 30, 2010 8:03 pm

All the documentation clearly shows he was one of the defenders at R.D
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Dave

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptySat May 01, 2010 9:32 am

Has anyone got a photo James owen, or a photo of he resting place.
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1879graves

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon May 31, 2010 7:22 pm

Hi Dave

A photo of him and his last resting place, can now be found at Pictorial catalogue of AZW Graves & Memorials
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pippi



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon May 31, 2010 7:45 pm

Thanx for the photo - wish I lived in the UK so I could pay my respects and care for it.
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ADMIN

ADMIN

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon May 31, 2010 9:20 pm

Pippi. Unfortunately many of the graves of the Zulu War Veterans are in poor condition. There have been some re-dedications. The only problem is its not cheap and takes lots of organising. If your interested I will have a word with someone who as a lot of experience in Re-Dedications to those that took part in the Zulu War. See what you think of the Re-Dedications that have been achieved so far. Click on link. http://1879zuluwar.forumotion.com/re-dedications-to-those-who-took-part-in-the-zulu-war-1879-f24/
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littlehand

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon May 31, 2010 11:17 pm

Let's face it this Grave could do with a redeadication.
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pippi



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyTue Jun 01, 2010 4:30 pm

It is definately worth looking in to a re-dedication, so yes please, I would appreciate any guidance you may be able to give as regards "Where do I go next"???
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pippi



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyTue Jun 01, 2010 8:44 pm

I don't suppose anyone has any other photos of James - I have one and it appears to be the same as the one shown here. Thanx.
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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptySun Jun 06, 2010 12:19 pm

Pippi. I have sent you a P.M
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Ed34



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyFri Aug 03, 2012 7:44 pm

While tracing my family genealogy it looks like Pvt James Owen might be an ancestor. I am trying to find out more information about him. Any suggestions on where there is information on him? My family thinks it is funny that I always loved the movie ZULU from when I was a kid and now have found out an ancestor was there!
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90th

90th

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Pte 25B/ 963 David Lewis ( James Owen )   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptySat Aug 04, 2012 12:45 am

Hi Ed34.
Welcome to the forum hope you enjoy your time here Salute . If you check the tabs on the left hand side ,' our favourite web links '- click on ' The Legacy ; Rorke's Drift ' by Kris Wheatley , in Volume 8 Kris has compiled 10 pages on Lewis ( Owen ) covering his birth , time in the army , after R.D , his civilian life , family etc - time of death and grave etc etc . Well worth having as is all the series . It will give you much info on what you are looking for .
Cheers 90th . You need to study mo
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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyTue Jan 26, 2021 4:13 pm

CTSG wrote with no further qualification on 30.4.2010 that
"All the documentation clearly shows he was one of the defenders at R.D".
This however is not the case. There is no such documentation.
Lewis is not on the Chard Roll.
He is not on the Waters Roll.
He is not on Dunbar's list.
He does appear on Bourne's Roll but is removed on Bourne's Amended Roll.
The newspaper report above makes it clear that he was with Chelmsford's Column and was part of the relieving force for RD.
Reading his descendant's posts above shows that her immediate family has never known of a connexion to RD although there is a newspaper report from 1997 quoting a Mrs Veale searching for information about her great-grandfather which is a little vague and non-committal. Bourne and a few other survivors sent a wreath to his funeral "to a gallant comrade" from the SWB Regimental Association - but that does not in itself prove anything other than Lewis was a member of that Association.
It would be useful to have some form of independent verification.
I wonder, does anyone have a primary source or know of a letter which could confirm that Lewis was actually an RD defender?
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24th

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyTue Jan 26, 2021 5:33 pm

Is James Owen on the roll.
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Julian Whybra



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyTue Jan 26, 2021 6:03 pm

24th
No
All
Actually I've just managed to answer my own question. Bourne mentions Lewis in his account - once as Lewis and again under the name Owen[s].
Sorry yo have bothered you all!
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1879graves

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyTue Jan 26, 2021 6:10 pm

Hi Julian

Are we saying YES to Rorke's Drift Defender or NO to Rorke's Drift Defender?

Andy
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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyTue Jan 26, 2021 6:43 pm

Julian Whybra wrote:
CTSG wrote with no further qualification on 30.4.2010 that
"All the documentation clearly shows he was one of the defenders at R.D".
This however is not the case.  There is no such documentation.
Lewis is not on the Chard Roll.
He is not on the Waters Roll.  
He is not on Dunbar's list.
He does appear on Bourne's Roll but is removed on Bourne's Amended Roll.
The newspaper report above makes it clear that he was with Chelmsford's Column and was part of the relieving force for RD.
Reading his descendant's posts above shows that her immediate family has never known of a connexion to RD although there is a newspaper report from 1997 quoting a Mrs Veale searching for information about her great-grandfather which is a little vague and non-committal.  Bourne and a few other survivors sent a wreath to his funeral "to a gallant comrade" from the SWB Regimental Association - but that does not in itself prove anything other than Lewis was a member of that Association.
It would be useful to have some form of independent verification.
I wonder, does anyone have a primary source or know of a letter which could confirm that Lewis was actually an RD defender?

Why was he removed from Bournes amended roll. ?
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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyWed Jan 27, 2021 9:15 am

Bourne compiled his original roll on 4th July 1910. Lewis was on it.
Bourne amended his roll (himself) at a date unknown afterwards. Lewis is not ticked as present.
In two of Bourne's own published accounts (1934 and 1936) he names Lewis/Owen specifically as a still-living survivor of RD.
Whatever caused Bourne not to include Lewis in his amended roll, his mind was changed back again later on. Both were members of the SWB Association so they would have had ample opportunities to reminisce.

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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyWed Jan 27, 2021 9:43 am

That's makes sense.
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Ed34



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Feb 01, 2021 7:40 pm

Ok so I’m confused, was Owen/Lewis part
Of RD defense?
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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyMon Feb 01, 2021 8:47 pm

Yes. We have nothing to say he wasn't.

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Julian Whybra



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Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen)   Pte 25B/963 David Lewis (James Owen) EmptyTue Feb 02, 2021 8:51 am

And we have Bourne's two later accounts to say he definitely was present.
It is the other three men whose presence is in doubt.
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