WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu: Colour Sergeant Bourne : The sentries report Zulus to the southwest. Thousands of them.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» New British Muzleloaders videos on Isandlwana
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyYesterday at 11:08 am by aussie inkosi

» Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyMon Apr 12, 2021 11:07 am by Visitor

» In Affectionate Remembrance of P.C. Stephens
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Apr 09, 2021 10:55 am by John Young

» Trpr. Simpson's medal
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyThu Apr 08, 2021 5:13 pm by Julian Whybra

» Someone maybe able to help. 2235 Pte A F Edmonds J7th DCOLrg
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyThu Apr 08, 2021 3:30 am by 90th

» Medal ribbon on Patrol Jacket
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySun Apr 04, 2021 9:47 pm by John Young

» Zulu War Medal
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySun Apr 04, 2021 6:23 pm by Kenny

» One of the lesser-known stories. It took place around the same time as Isandlwana.
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySun Apr 04, 2021 9:54 am by Julian Whybra

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySun Apr 04, 2021 9:29 am by Julian Whybra

» Isandlwana Survivor photo's
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySat Apr 03, 2021 7:06 pm by ADMIN

» <Pte. W. Dunne 2nd Btn 3rd (East Kent) Regiment ('The Buffs') & Sgt. O. Hydenburg (Aydenburg) Natal Native Contingent,)
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Apr 02, 2021 1:33 pm by gardner1879

» William Papworth. Alan Gardner's servant.
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyThu Apr 01, 2021 10:28 pm by gardner1879

» Smith-Dorrien 1881
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyThu Apr 01, 2021 5:45 pm by John Young

» Archibald Forbes query
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyTue Mar 30, 2021 11:26 am by Julian Whybra

» Norris-Newman
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyMon Mar 29, 2021 10:17 am by ADMIN

» Forum questions or problems!
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySun Mar 28, 2021 10:25 pm by ADMIN

» Pte Lewitt of the 58th Foot
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySun Mar 28, 2021 12:09 am by 90th

» nTshingwayo ka Mahole
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Mar 26, 2021 6:07 am by Frank Allewell

» George Astell Pardoe Lieutentant, 13th Light Infantry
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyWed Mar 24, 2021 12:13 am by 90th

» Press coverage of the Zulu King
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyMon Mar 22, 2021 9:33 am by Frank Allewell

» Mini Series : Shaka: King of the Zulu Nation
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySat Mar 20, 2021 9:47 am by Frank Allewell

» Henry Felton 3/60th
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Mar 19, 2021 1:28 pm by Will M

» Pvt John Llyod 1/24th
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyWed Mar 17, 2021 7:12 pm by gardner1879

» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyWed Mar 17, 2021 2:00 pm by 1879graves

» Natal Transport Service
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyTue Mar 16, 2021 10:07 pm by 90th

» The Passing of His Majesty King Goodwill Zwelithini
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySat Mar 13, 2021 5:38 pm by Brett Hendey

» Prevost, William. Ensign. Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySat Mar 13, 2021 11:15 am by John Young

» 9312 Sapper H Cuthbert 5th Field Coy RE
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Mar 12, 2021 1:29 pm by ADMIN

» Zulu War to Boer war. Those who served in both.
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyWed Mar 10, 2021 3:02 pm by 1879graves

» Captain Gardner's Escort
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 10:50 pm by WeekendWarrior

» Out there from David Jackson
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 5:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» The source of the MacKinnon & Shadbolt map discovered.
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 2:28 am by WeekendWarrior

» Experiences During the Zulu War
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyTue Mar 09, 2021 12:25 am by Peter35

» Duck, Veterinary Colonel Francis, CB, AVD, PRCVS
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyMon Mar 08, 2021 6:12 pm by 1879graves

» 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, September 1879
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Mar 05, 2021 5:28 pm by Kenny

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Battle Of ISANDLWANA1879/01/22 Camp Over Run
Top posters
90th
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
littlehand
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
ADMIN
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
1879graves
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
rusteze
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
John
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
gardner1879
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
John Young
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
90th
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
Kenny
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
Shaun Winkler
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
Visitor
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
ADMIN
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_leftPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  BarPrior to Sihayo's Kraal  Bar_right 
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
harford martini 24th Mounted George taylor Durnford Russell smith Woolfryes melvill john Isandlwana Franklin Forbes zulu Police Prince horse carbineers Natal spalding payne henry james drift
 

 Prior to Sihayo's Kraal

Go down 
AuthorMessage
24th

24th

Posts : 1857
Join date : 2009-03-25

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyThu Jun 16, 2011 10:20 pm

Was there any skirmishes between the British and the Zulu's prior to the attack on Sihayo's Kraal. Or was this the first action that to place between the two armies during the Anglo Zulu War.

Back to top Go down
John

John

Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 58
Location : UK

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyThu Jun 16, 2011 10:34 pm

Good question. I'm sure there must have been little snipes at each other, but I don't recall reading anything other that the first action after invading Zululand was at Sihayo's Kraal.
Back to top Go down
sas1

sas1

Posts : 629
Join date : 2009-01-20
Age : 42

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyThu Jun 16, 2011 11:25 pm

Didn't Wood or Buller get into a small argument on the 7th or 8th Jan with a body of Zulus.
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10256
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal   Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 4:54 am

Hi all.
No 3 Column didnt cross into zululand till the 11th jan ( Unopposed ) and the attack on Sihayo's Kraal was I think the 12th
so fairly certain there wasnt any prior contact . Cant remember reading of any contact on the 7th or 8th Jan with Wood / Buller
either . Happy to be corrected . Idea .
cheers 90th.
Back to top Go down
Saul David 1879



Posts : 527
Join date : 2009-02-28

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 9:26 am

I do recall reading that an incident did take place early morning on the 10th or the 11th. It was thought that Sirayo would oppose Glyn.s crossing at RD. Some of Bullers men were sent out and no sooner after leaving the camp they came under fire from a small party of Zulu's. I make have got this wrong,but when I have time I will check, this incident is recorded in the Zulu Campaign by . Major Ashe
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879

Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 9:47 am

Page 33 of Ashe & Wyatt-Edgell, the morning after the meeting with Chelmsford & Wood. Buller's men were fired upon. Later the same day Robert Barton & the FLH have a brush with some Zulus. Which given that Chelmsford & Wood met on 11th January 1879, would be the 12th the same day as the attack on Sihayo's stronghold.

kwaJimu1879
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10256
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal   Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 9:56 am

Hi Saul David 1879.
Checked my copy of Ashe it reads to me the skirmish took place on the 12th .
cheers 90th. Idea
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7728
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 74
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 11:37 am

There was a small "skirmish " on the 6th near Vermaarks on the Biggarsberg when Shepstone arrested the male inhabitants of a local kraal who had been signalling troop movements.
Then on the way back from meeting Woods the Chelmsford party raided a group of kraals and liberated a herd of cows. In fact several hundred cattle, some horses and a number of sheep and goats is how Norris Newman puts it.
So the first hostile action would I assume have been credited to Shepstone. The first casualty was a member of the NNC at the commencement of the attack on Sirayo's kraal, he was wounded by a sniper.

Regards
Back to top Go down
Dave

Dave

Posts : 1604
Join date : 2009-09-21

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 12:52 pm

Just an observation ref; this book. It was published in 1880. Yet it says it was by Wyatt-Edgel who was killed at the Battle of Lundi which as you know was in 1879. Can I take it they were writing this book while serving in the Zulu War.
Back to top Go down
Saul David 1879



Posts : 527
Join date : 2009-02-28

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 1:04 pm

Thanks for that, saves me hunting around, but as you have got the books open. Was there not an incident involving Captain Barton who was moving further into Zululand.
Back to top Go down
kwajimu1879

kwajimu1879

Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-05-14

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 1:56 pm

Dave,

Edmund Wyatt-Edgell was corresponding with Waller Ashe, until his death at the Battle of Ulundi, 4th July 1879. It was that correspondence which formed the basis of the book.

Saul David 1879,

I think you find I already mentioned Robert Barton in my previous posting, unless you're referring to one of the other Captain Bartons?

kwaJimu1879
Back to top Go down
Saul David 1879



Posts : 527
Join date : 2009-02-28

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 4:54 pm

Jimu. You did. Apologies. Didn't read it correctly.
Back to top Go down
tasker224

tasker224

Posts : 2102
Join date : 2010-07-30
Age : 54
Location : North London

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 12:25 pm

What ever happened, it was the British who initiated contact.

Wasn't Cetshwayo particularly careful NOT to give the British any excuse whatsoever to start a war?

Cetshwayo wasn't stupid, he knew he was being forced into a corner by ever increasingly outrageous demands and knew the British would be delighted for any Zulu aggression.

Even after invading Zululand, the Zulus eluded any contact with Chelmsford's column, as per Cetshwayo's orders.

In the absence of any Zulu contact whatsoever, Chelmsford was forced to attack Sihayo's kraal. This was the first action of the AZW.
Back to top Go down
Chard1879

Chard1879

Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 6:50 pm

Cetshwayo, was not a man that could be trusted, take a look the conditions he agreed to if he was to be recognised as the Zulu King by the British. Conditions imposed by Stepstone during his coronation.
Back to top Go down
old historian2

old historian2

Posts : 1095
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : East London

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 9:23 pm

Chard1879. Could you post what the conditions, were that was imposed at the coronation.
Back to top Go down
Dave

Dave

Posts : 1604
Join date : 2009-09-21

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 9:48 pm

"Cetshwayo was crowned twice - by the Zulu people and by agents of Queen Victoria. The 'colonial coronation' was accompanied by 'laws' - allegedly agreed to by the new king - that gave Britain the discretion to depose him. These 'laws' dealt with the proportionate powers of subordinate chiefs and the requirements for execution of Zulu subjects. The first five years of Cetshwayo's reign followed a now familiar pattern the 'raising up' of favourites within the Zulu hierarchy and courting of the British against Boer expansionism. Disease had meanwhile decimated Zululand cattle herds and the resulting tension led first to internecine raids and murder, then spilled over to affect white settlers in the form of harassment and stock theft. Both contravened Cetshwayo's 'coronation laws' and invoked Britain's 'right and duty' to depose him."
Back to top Go down
tasker224

tasker224

Posts : 2102
Join date : 2010-07-30
Age : 54
Location : North London

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 10:13 pm

Chard1879:

" the conditions he agreed to" :lol!:

With the metaphorical gun pointing to his head!
Back to top Go down
Saul David 1879



Posts : 527
Join date : 2009-02-28

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 11:47 pm

Tasker. It was the King who asked to be recognised by the British, not the other way around. The British agreed providing he agreed to certain regulations, one being stop killing your people for nothing.
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7728
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 74
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySun Jun 19, 2011 9:19 am

Saul David
C'mon Prof surely a tad naive?
Shepstone bulldozed his way across Southern Africa with all the arrogance of a Brit imperialist. That applies to his dealings with the Zulu, he invited himself into Zulu land. And as for that tatty old so called coronation? In theory yes Cetswayo wanted recognition, but for one reason..........first comes the missionary etc. He wanted to protect his kingdom and like a true diplomat was prepared to suffer the English if that would aid his cause.
Bottom line was that Frere wanted him gone, in spite of his own government, and used Theopolis and Chelmsford to do so.
Zululand was a soverign state. The so called coronation and recognition was a means to an end. The Brits knew the highly contentious 'conditions' would never be enforcable.

Regards
Back to top Go down
tasker224

tasker224

Posts : 2102
Join date : 2010-07-30
Age : 54
Location : North London

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySun Jun 19, 2011 9:22 am

Why should a king in a distant country thousands of miles away, feel it necessary to seek and agree to British conditions?

We all know the answer, of course, and let's not pretend we believe it was the British Government's shocked concern, over the fate of two of Cetshwayo's unfaithful women.

The same old excuses are used by a certain superpower and its side-kicks to intefere in other countries' affairs and wage war today. (Unless of course, those counties don't have any oil, or anything else of interest that can be plundered).

Nothing much has changed.
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 52
Location : Down South.

Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Prior to Sihayo's Kraal    Prior to Sihayo's Kraal  EmptySun Jun 19, 2011 4:58 pm

But all that aside. Cetshwayo ammitted after his capture that had the British not annexed the transvaal, war would have broken have broken out between the zulus and the Dutch Settlers. Perhaps its a good thing the Brit's did bulldoze there way in.

Old H. Here you go.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
 
Prior to Sihayo's Kraal
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: