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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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 Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.

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barrie



Posts : 4
Join date : 2011-10-02

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 03, 2011 6:47 pm

Hello everyone

New to this,though I've been interested in the Zulu War since I saw the film Zulu,so I fear all the traffic will be one way.
Apologies since I guess you'll have covered my queries (many times?) before so please bear with my general ignorance!
As an opener;
Most sources I've seen have the Zulu casualties at Isandlwana as around 1000 dead and perhaps 2000 wounded,of whom some must have later died from their wounds.
Does this seem to be to be rather too low?
I've read that the Regular Infantry carried 70 rounds of ammunition to the firing line and received some re-supply.
A quick sum,assuming roughly 600 men of the 1st and 2nd Battalions,gives an absolute minimum of 42,0000 rounds most of which seems to have been used,since it's always said that the defenders of the camp held out until they ran out of ammunition.
Factor in Colonel Durnford's men,the Irregulars and the N.C.C. not to mention the Artillery and it appears that at least 90% of the shots fired by the British Army didn't hit anyone!
Can this really be correct?
Over to you.
Barrie
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 23

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 03, 2011 6:55 pm

Hi barrie,
not sure about the wounded but the camp defenders where not short of ammumntion. The men accoring to Mike Snooks book would have had at least 30 rounds left by the time the bugle called the retreat. Durnfords NNH men most likly did run out of ammuntion. The camp was lost because of Durnfords retreat exposing a flank.

Regards Db14
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 23

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 03, 2011 9:51 pm

I think the strenth was around 24,000 at Isandlwana as this was observed before the war.

Source How Can Men Die Better Mike Snook

Another Question is how many people died at Isandlwana on the British side. Most people say 1300+ but when i did a survay it came to around 2,000.

This is it and i know it is only a rough copy but and thourghts anyone??????

Casulty list Isnadlwana 1879
1st Battalion 24th.
Present 15 Officers and 398 men Killed 15 officers and 396 men

2nd battalion 24th
Present 5 officers and 171 men Killed 5 officers and 171 men

Royal Artillery
Present 2 officers and 71 men Killed 1 officer and 62 men

Imperial mounted Infantry

Present 31 men Killed 21 men

Royal Engineers
Present 2 officers and 5 men Killed 2 officers and 5 men

Natal Mounted Police
Present 34 men Killed 25 men

Natal Carbineers
Present 2 Officers and 27 men Killed 2 Officers and 20 men
Newcastle Mounted rifles
Present 2 officers and 12 men Killed 2 Officers and 5 men
Buffalo Boarder Guard
Present 1 Officer and 7 men Killed 3 men
Natal Native Contingent ( Figures not accurate)
Present 25 Officers and 877 men Killed 19 Officers and 480 men
Natal Native Horse
Present 6 Officers and 257 men Killed 2 Officers and 27 men
Army Hospital Corps
Present 2 Officers and 14 men Killed 2 Officers and 14 men
Pioneers
Present 1 Officer and 10 men Killed 10 men
Civilians Numbers not known probably around 300 casualties
Total around 2057 killed.

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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7086
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 51
Location : Down South.

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 03, 2011 9:54 pm

Englands Son's would be a better source.
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 23

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 03, 2011 10:00 pm

Littlehand is that a book as i am trying to get my parnets to buy me as much Zulu stuff as possible for Christmas and that could go nicely.


Is their a ruff number though because it is definatly more then 1300?
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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7086
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Age : 51
Location : Down South.

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 03, 2011 10:03 pm

Drop Julian Whybra a P.M he's the author and a member of the forum.
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 23

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 03, 2011 10:06 pm

Thanks Idea
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garywilson1

garywilson1

Posts : 374
Join date : 2009-01-22
Age : 58
Location : Timisoara , Romania

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyTue Oct 04, 2011 9:25 am

Barrie , getting back to your first point , it has always suprised me too thet the Zulu casualties were not much higher compared to the number of rounds expended . The same goes for RD .
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90th

90th

Posts : 10077
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Zulu Dead at Isandlwana    Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyTue Oct 04, 2011 12:23 pm

Hi Barrie.
Firstly welcome to the Forum . I've read somewhere and cant remember where , a breakdown of the round expenditure at
Rorke's Drift and was surprised how many rounds were fired to the number of dead and possible number of zulu wounded .
Roughly it was somewhere in the region of 90 % of rounds fired didnt hit their mark !. I think this may have been in one
of the ' Journals of the AZW Historical Society ' will check it out Wednesday . It can be assumed this rate was little or no
better at Isandlwana ? .
cheers 90th. Idea

Dave .
I didnt think we found the definitive answer as to who selected the camp ? . I think it was a staff decision ? . May have to read
that thread again .
cheers 90th Idea

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barrie



Posts : 4
Join date : 2011-10-02

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyWed Oct 05, 2011 5:33 pm

Thanks 90th,very illuminating.
Barrie
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90th

90th

Posts : 10077
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Zulu Dead at Isandlwana    Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyThu Oct 06, 2011 6:21 am

Hi Barrie .
Did you understand the table I attempted to put on the forum ? . Or were you being polite ? . :lol!: .
cheers 90th.
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warrior3



Posts : 93
Join date : 2010-06-28
Age : 55
Location : Maidstone, Kent

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Zulu Dead At Isandlwana!!   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 10, 2011 12:18 pm

jk


Last edited by warrior3 on Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ADMIN

ADMIN

Posts : 3917
Join date : 2008-11-01
Age : 61
Location : KENT

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 10, 2011 1:30 pm

Topic Split.
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barrie



Posts : 4
Join date : 2011-10-02

Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana.   Zulu & British Dead At Isandlwana. EmptyMon Oct 10, 2011 9:03 pm

Hi 90th

Sorry for late reply,been away.
Quite sure I got the gist,if not the complete picture regarding the ammunition expenditure at Rorkes Drift and Isandlwana etc.
Thanks also for sticking to the point re. my original post! :lol!:

cheers

Barrie
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