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» (Lieut: R. F. Westmacott. 77th. Foot.)
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 Incident at Ulundi.

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Ulundi

Ulundi

Posts : 558
Join date : 2012-05-05

Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Incident at Ulundi.    Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 11, 2014 12:43 am

The only thing, that puzzles me, is thats Cetshwayo had forbidden an attack on a fortified position yet he stood by a watched it happen. I still think, he could have played a better game. I wonder how the Zulu commander who led his Impi's at Isandlwana would have responded if he had been in sole command at Ulundi. ?
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90th

90th

Posts : 10312
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 65
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Incident at Ulundi   Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 11, 2014 1:22 am

Ulundi , Cetshwayo didnt watch the battle at Ulundi , I posted a couple of weeks ago that although he was thought to have been there , he had in fact left , his brother was there according to Laband and others , who in appearance was similar . Like Les said , how could you reign in the zulu warriors ? , their impetiosity lead to a loss at Khambula , Khambula could well have been another zulu victory if they had attacked with a co-ordinated effort , as it was , they were goaded into a premature attack by Wood , ordering Buller and his Colonial Mtd force to attempt to draw them on , which , is in fact what transpired ! . I've never for the life of me understood why the Zulu army never attacked the Columns on the march , although they did at Nyezane , and it failed , possibly that's why it was not attempted again ? .
90th  Salute 
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7786
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 74
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Incident at Ulundi.    Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 11, 2014 5:05 am

24th
Your confusing issues. Your highlighted text indicating a fortified camp refers to the camp on the bank of the river mentioned prieviously in the text. I would suggest you read a booklet by Laband called "Fight us in the Open".
The Zulu described the British Soldiers as Cowards and pigs that grovel in the dirt because they hide behind walls. It was imperative that Chelmsford met them head on without walls carriages etc to block of the troops. This he did and it was at that point that the Impis admitted defeat.
As a matter of record the Zulu pressure was so intense that Chelmsford at one point came close to panic in requesting "Cant they shoot any faster."

Ulundi today
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Ulundi
There was no fortified position at Ulundi, only a reserve camp at the river base.
Cheers
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Chard1879

Chard1879

Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

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PostSubject: Re: Incident at Ulundi.    Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 11, 2014 8:30 pm

So the formation used at Ulundi, is it safe to say, they had formed a fortified position.?
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Chard1879

Chard1879

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Join date : 2010-04-12

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PostSubject: Re: Incident at Ulundi.    Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 11, 2014 8:34 pm

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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7786
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 74
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Incident at Ulundi.    Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 12, 2014 6:04 am

Chard
No.
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24th

24th

Posts : 1858
Join date : 2009-03-25

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PostSubject: Re: Incident at Ulundi.    Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 12, 2014 10:48 am

A square formation fortified poistion. Consisting of Infantry, Cavaraly, Artillery,Naval Gatling gun crews.  scratch 
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2265
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 65
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Incident at Ulundi.    Incident at Ulundi.  - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 12, 2014 12:17 pm

Personally I think this has strayed somewhat from the original question which relates to the Zulu envoys' escort being surrounded but allowed to continue unharmed, into a question of when does a an open square become a fort. Again in my opinion the square was not a fortified position, it was a defensive position but in no way can it be considered as fortified.

The nearest fortified position was Fort Nolela which had been constructed on 2nd July 1879 on the banks of the White Mfolozi River.

24th,

If I can pull you up on the matter of Naval Gatling gun crews, there were no Royal Navy Gatling Guns at the Battle of Ulundi. The two Gatling Guns were provided by Number 10 Battery, 7th Brigade, Royal Artillery, under the command Major J. F. Owen and Lieutenant H. M. L. Rundle.

John Y.
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