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Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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John Young
John
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John

John


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PostSubject: SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER    SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER  EmptyThu Nov 05, 2015 9:06 pm

Is it known, what happen to these two chap's.
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER    SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER  EmptyFri Nov 06, 2015 7:25 am

John,

They were ambushed and killed whilst on signalling duties near to the kwaMagwaza Mission Station, on 30th June 1879.

They are buried at the location.

John Y.
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Ray63

Ray63


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PostSubject: Re: SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER    SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER  EmptyFri Nov 06, 2015 8:05 am

John when you say "signalling duties" did they have the heliograph with them or was it some other device?
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER    SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER  EmptyFri Nov 06, 2015 9:18 am

Ray63,

Not that I'm aware of. I have recently been doing some research on the use of the heliograph in the campaign and I can't find any reference. It was foggy at the time of their death so it wouldn't have been a lot of good.

I would suggest they were carrying dispatches, or possibly signal-flags, again little use in a fog.

John Y.
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littlehand

littlehand


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PostSubject: Re: SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER    SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER  EmptyFri Nov 06, 2015 11:16 pm

"Lieutenant James Henry Scott-Douglas, who was slain at KwaMagwasa, Zululand, on June 30th 1879, was the eldest son of Sir George Henry Scott-Douglas, of Springwood Park, Kelso, Baronet, M.P. for Roxburghshire, and Dona Mariquita Juana Petronila Sanchez De Pina, his wife. He was born at Edinburgh on May 27th 1853, and passed his early years at Springwood Park. He was known as Jaime.

In 1864 he went to school at Blackfriars, under Mr R C Powles, and thence proceeded to St Leonards, where he was prepared by the Rev. J Wright for Winchester. He entered Winchester early in 1869, and whilst there became a member of the school Corps of Rifle Volunteers; thence he proceeded to Llanwenorth, where he was prepared by Rev. G Faithfull for the University. On February 29th 1872, he received from the Duke of Buccleuch a commission as Lieutenant in the Queen's Regiment of Light Infantry Militia, which he joined at Dalkeith for training of that year. In October he began his studies at Trinity College Cambridge, and in the following spring passed his previous examination, thereby qualifying himself for a commission in the army as university candidate; having, however, commenced to read the historical Tripos, and being anxious to more effectually complete his education, he abstained from availing himself of the qualification. About this time he enrolled himself in the university volunteers, and shortly afterwards became a Sergeant of that Corps. At the close of the long vacation of 1875 he had the misfortune to meet with a severs fall from his horse, which brought a concussion of the brain; he was thereby prevented from taking part in the final examination for the Tripos, but the examiners were so convinced, by his previous work, of his attainments, that they conferred on him the B.A. degree with honours.

On April the 1st 1875, he was gazetted to the 19th Regiment, being anxious to serve with a Scotch Corps, he was transferred to the 21st Royal North British Fusiliers, joining that Regiment at Portsmouth in January 1876. Shortly afterwards he passed most creditably through a course of garrison instruction, his commanding officer testifying to the manner in which he excelled in tactics and military law. From the School of Musketry at Hythe he came out with an extra first-class certificate' he also obtained a first-class instructor's certificate at the school of army signalling at Aldershot; and on his return to his regiment, performed the duty of Officer-Instructor to it.

Lieutenant Scott-Douglas, accompanying his Regiment, left Queenstown for Zululand in February 1879, and arriving at Durban on March the 29th. Proceeding to the front, he was appointed chief of the signalling staff of the 2nd Division of the Field Force, and, applying himself ardently to his difficult and important duties, he succeeded in a short time in establishing a line of communication. By means of flags and the heliograph, from the most advanced post to the rearmost. On the morning of June 30th, he was employed with his signalling party at Entonganeni; before noon a mist came on which obscured the sun and prevented the working of the heliograph, and shortly afterwards an important message arrived which Lord Chelmsford was desirous to have forwarded to Sir Garnet Wolseley. Lieutenant Scott-Douglas, with his signalling party and an escort, immediately set out to carry it to Fort Evelyn, twenty Miles distant; but finding the condition of the horses to be so bad as to preclude the possibility of escape in the event of the enemy being met with in force. He decided not to risk the safety of so large a party, and rode on with only his orderly, Corporal Cotter of the 17th Lancers. Upon his arrival at the fort the officer who commanded it, observing the fatigued condition of the horses and the unsettled appearance of the weather, urged him to pass the night there; but knowing, by the nature of the messages he had forwarded, that the army was to march for Ulundi at daybreak on the following morning, he preferred to return. The start for Entonganeni was made at 3 p.m., and about an hour afterwards a dense fog came on and shrouded the surrounding country. The track, at all times difficult to follow, branches off towards the deserted mission-station of KwaMagwasa; in the obscurity the two horsemen accidentally took the wrong path, and it was not until after they arrived at the mission-station that they discovered their mistake. Hard by this spot, where they dismounted to refresh their horses, they were observed and surprised by a body of some five hundred Zulus, who were marching to join Cetshwayo at Ulundi. Lieutenant Scott-Douglas was able to discharge five chambers of his revolver, and then fell pierced to the heart by an assegai. His body was found some days afterwards by Brigadier-General Wood, lying near to that of Corporal Cotter, who had also stood his ground most gallantly: the two were buried, with military honours, side by side, in marked graves by crosses and sheltered by a luxuriant growth of the wild cactus.

'Of the soldierlike, manly bearing and social virtues of Lieutenant Scott-Douglas,' wrote Colonel Collingwood, 21st Royal Scots Fusiliers, 'I, his commanding officer, cannot speak too highly. He was the ideal type of an officer and a gentleman in the highest sense in which that term can be applied.'"
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER    SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER  EmptySat Nov 07, 2015 8:21 am

LH,

I knew I should have checked Mac & Shad...

If I have time and if the RHF Museum is open I'll try and photograph the Scott-Douglas display in Glasgow today.

John Y.
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER    SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER  EmptySat Nov 07, 2015 12:12 pm

Even checked through 'They fell like stones' couldnt find a mention. Or did I miss it John?
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John Young

John Young


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PostSubject: Re: SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER    SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER  EmptySat Nov 07, 2015 3:19 pm

Frank,

You did indeed go towards the back of the book and you will find the reference.

Regards,

John Y.
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Ken Gillings




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PostSubject: Re: SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER    SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER  EmptySat Nov 07, 2015 3:49 pm

Lt Henry Scott Douglas and Cpl Cotter had ridden to Fort Evelyn to have Lord Chelmsford's response to Sir Garnet Wolseley's order request for a 'sitrep' and his instruction that he needed prior notification of any major manoeuvre involvng an advance on Ondini transmitted to Wolseley. They were actually returning from Fort Evelyn to the British encampment at Mthonjaneni because Scott Douglas was anxious not to miss what was considered likely to be the final battle of the War (which it was, of course - it was Ulundi).
Despite suggestions that they wait until morning, Scott Douglas and Cotter commenced their return journey and became lost in the thick mist near kwaMagwaza mission station, running into some Zulus who were en route to Ondini.
They put up as spirited fight but were overwhelmed and killed. Their bodies were only discovered on the 11th July 1879.
The Zulus apparently removed Scott Douglas's sword but it reappeared in 1972 when an advert appeared in the Houston Post in Texas. It had been discovered in a Zulu umuzi (homestead) but it is a mystery as to how it ended up in Texas.
When I met Donald Morris in Durban during his final visit to South Africa, he told me that the sword was on display at the Gallerie d'Afrique in Houston. I'd be interested to know if it is still there.
I'll try to post a photo of their graves if I can find out how to.
Regards, Ken
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Ken Gillings




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PostSubject: Re: SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER    SCOTT DOUGLAS AND CORPORAL COTTER  EmptySat Nov 07, 2015 3:51 pm

Oops - my apologies; I didn't see Littlehand's post!
Still trying to find out how to post the photo.
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