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» The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.
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» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.
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» South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)
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 Army Pay Department Personnel

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ANWYLL




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Army Pay Department Personnel Empty
PostSubject: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyWed Jun 19, 2024 10:56 am

If anyone comes across or has any information relating to the Army Pay Department or Army Pay Corps that would be appreciated.

All I have thus far is:
It was on the 22 January 1879 that Honorary Major Francis Freeman White, Paymaster and 896 Paymaster-Sergeant George Edward Mead were killed during this action.  Attached to 1st Battalion, 24th Regiment of Foot, they were not expected to fight alongside the infantry, but circumstances found them at the Battle of Isandlwana were they had no choice but to fight and die alongside the other 1,300 casualties.  

According to Lt Col Mike Snook, “The Mbonambi charged in from all directions, flailing assegais, knobkerries and shields. The momentum of the assault drove the fight back into the 2nd Battalion tents. No doubt Paymaster White did sterling service with his revolver, but it was in this fight that he fell. Some men rallied again in a small knot just behind the ammunition wagons; they held their ground for a minute or two, until at length their pouches were empty. After a savage and supremely violent flurry of hand-to-hand fighting, this last remnant of A Company was also annihilated
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John Young

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Army Pay Department Personnel Empty
PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyWed Jun 19, 2024 1:13 pm

Anwyll,

I am going to lazy here and simply cut & paste White’s obituary from The South African Campaign of 1879:

FRANCIS FREEMAN WHITE, PAYMASTER AND MAJOR, 24TH REGIMENT (2ND WARWICKSHIRE).

MAJOR FRANCIS FREEMAN WHITE, who was killed at Isandhwana on the 22nd of January, 1879, was the second son of Benjamin Finch White, Esquire, of Rath Cahill, King's County, Ireland. He was born on the 5th of February, 1829, and was educated by the Rev. H. Tyrrel, curate of Shinrone, King's County.
He obtained a direct commission by purchase in February, 1850, being gazetted to an ensigncy in the ist Battalionof the 24th Regiment, and proceeded to the depôt of the corps at Chatham in the following April; shortly afterwards he embarked for India to join the head-quarters of the regiment, then in Bengal. In May, 1854, he became Lieutenant by purchase, and in July, 1856, Paymaster. He served with the regiment through the Indian mutiny, performing many arduous and important duties, and subsequently obtained the medal. In 1859 he returned from India to England, where he remained until 1866, when he again proceeded abroad with the regiment; he was stationed with it for four years at Malta and Gibraltar, and embarked with it, at the latter end of 1874, for the Cape.
Major White served with his battalion in South Africa through the Gaika and Galeka campaign of 1877, from the commencement of the outbreak until its suppress bring prepared to act agains toe Zulus in the event of their refusing on time-ply with the terms of Sir Bartle Frere's ultimatum. He took part with the regiment in the subsequent advance of Colonel Glyn's column, in January, 1079, into the enemy's country, and was present at the storming of Sirayo's stronghold in the Bashee Valley. He then accompanied the regiment to Isandhwana, and in the disastrous encounter with the enemy at that position on the 22nd of January, shared the fate of the bulk of his gallant corps: he fell in harness doing his duty in the fighting line of skirmishers, and much aiding in the defence by bringing ammunition to replenish the exhausted pouches.
In the death of Major White the country lost a gallant and able servant. He was the oldest officer in his battalion, having served with it without intermission, from the 15th of February, 1850, till the day of his death, and he was justly beloved not only by his brother officers and the men of the regiment, but by all who knew him.
Major White married, in 1874, Agnes, daughter of the late Captain Tracey, R.A.
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SRB1965

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Army Pay Department Personnel Empty
PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyWed Jun 19, 2024 1:44 pm

I often wonder what Paymaster White and his Pay Sgt were doing with the Column, is there any record of 'pay chests' being lost in the aftermath of the battle?
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyWed Jun 19, 2024 2:06 pm

Simon,

They were basically part of the battalion’s establishment.

Only last night I was doing some work on 2nd/24th’s Paymaster, John Mahoney.  Who in mid-February 1879 was riding around in company with some well-known figures in the area of the Mooi River.

JY
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyWed Jun 19, 2024 2:42 pm

Simon,

There was a District Paymaster for the region of Natal and the Transvaal, that was Staff Paymaster W. C. Ball of the Army Pay Department. It would have been his overall responsibility for insure the payments were received by the battalion paymasters. Battalion paymasters would have to been responsible for prize money gained from cattle seizures.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyWed Jun 19, 2024 3:06 pm

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SRB1965

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Army Pay Department Personnel Empty
PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyWed Jun 19, 2024 3:08 pm

Thanks a lot, do you know if the soldiers were paid at a set period - monthly (it whatever) and presumably any unpaid wages would be part of the affects claimed by the family (in the case of fatalities)

I've also read that each Company had some kind of savings scheme/bank, which they could put any spare money into?

I would assume that PM White would want to keep his finger on the pulse, regarding captive cattle.
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John Young

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Army Pay Department Personnel Empty
PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyWed Jun 19, 2024 3:24 pm

Simon,

The Pay & Muster Rolls covered a three month period, deductions & alike would appear in these ledgers, that were maintained by the respective Paymaster and his staff.

There would have been pay-parades if the unit were in barracks or depot.

JY
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Julian Whybra




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Army Pay Department Personnel Empty
PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyThu Jun 20, 2024 8:42 am

Hence the division of the Pay Lists and Muster Rolls now housed at TNA into Quarters.
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Julian Whybra




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Army Pay Department Personnel Empty
PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyThu Jun 20, 2024 9:00 am

John
Can I pick your brain? Whilst technically White was in the Army Pay Dept. and attached to the 1/24th, did the same technicality apply to Pay-Sergt. Mead? I'm not sure that there were any enlisted men in the A.P.D. and it functioned instead as did the Army Medical Department. Was Mead simply appointed by the regt. from among its sergts. to assist White in his work?
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyThu Jun 20, 2024 9:10 am

Julian,

George Mead remained a member of the 1st/24th, hence his battalion no. 896.  He was appointed to his role on 16th February 1876.

The Army Pay Department was established in 1878, and was an officer only department.

Other-ranks were only introduced to the Army Pay Corps on establishment in 1893.

JY
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Julian Whybra




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Army Pay Department Personnel Empty
PostSubject: Re: Army Pay Department Personnel   Army Pay Department Personnel EmptyThu Jun 20, 2024 11:49 am

Thanks, John. As I thought. Anwyll's opening post in this thread seemed to suggest otherwise.
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